The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by catchwtboxing, Apr 13, 2024.



  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    One thing is for sure, Marciano Delusion Syndrome goes undefeated in any era.
     
  2. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    Legends say there's a place called "The Temple of the Rock" somewhere in a forest near Brockton. Monks from all over travel there to study the ways of the Rock.

    -They hit the heavy bag for 20 rounds a day
    -They run for 10 miles
    -They condition their bodies to get tougher by swimming in -10 degree water and hitting each other with baseball bats.

    These monks chant "I'll find some way to win" while meditating under waterfalls along with other chants such as "come from behind, score the KO" as they shadow box. Part of their regiment is study the art of debating for the sole purpose of finding holes in the arguments of anyone who dares question the way of the Rock. After they complete the 6 month regiment, the monks return to normal society, rejuvenated and filled with determination. They go back to being cashiers, bus drivers, cooks, or any number of jobs. Some are boxers themselves. They are among us, they could be any of us, and they will fight to defend the Rock's honor to the death.
     
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  3. Pedro_El_Chef

    Pedro_El_Chef Member Full Member

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    Here are two Schmeling fights you can watch that show his ability. Check for his timing, counter punching and crouching style.

    vs Ben Foord
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    vs Joe Louis
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    Galento was defeated by contemporary fighters, he wasn't dominating the division but his power and durability did allow him to beat some good contenders. Power goes a long way in the heavyweight division, you should know, you brought Wilder into the discussion.
    The problem as I previously stated is that you question Louis' opposition by using Carnera and Galento as the key representatives of his era when there were very skilled fighters around like Tommy Farr, Billy Conn, Bob Pastor, Jimmy Bivins and many more. But there is very limited footage so you'll watch Galento and Carnera fight Baer and come to the conclusion that they were all slow and plodding.
    I could easily make the same argument using Wilder as an example for todays era while ignoring that Usyk and Joshua are around.
     
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  4. PRW94

    PRW94 Active Member Full Member

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    I use baseball analogies here a lot because I love that sport too, but Marciano acolytes are about as bad and about as irrational and about as impossible to talk to as people who will literally fight you that Nolan Ryan was the GOAT pitcher.
     
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  5. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    THE RING IS NOT OFFICIAL RATINGS.

    They are someone's opinion. Valdes was not #1 after he beat Charles. At first you were mistaken, now you are pushing a fiction.

    Wallace was ranked contender in '53 according to real ratings.
     
  6. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's completely irrelevant. The newspapers all said Walcott won, A STANDARD WHICH YOU HAVE USED BEFORE.

    Again, your obvious double standards.

    By the way, Louis said Walcott won, and he started to leave the ring before the decision was announced in shame.

    I actually meant Schaff. My bad on that one.
     
  7. Pedro_El_Chef

    Pedro_El_Chef Member Full Member

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    https://imgur.com/a/7zKqaUY
     
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  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Cool video. (See: I love Rocky, too.)

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  9. Jakub79

    Jakub79 Member Full Member

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    I watched it, thank you, very good quality. I don't know if I understand correctly - is this fight proof of how great Shmelling was or that the era was great? if so, ok... but let me stick to my opinion. As for Wilder, I still think he's a league above Carnera. I don't know what the hate for Wilder is about. He doesn't know much, it's true, he has terrible footwork but he moves quite agile, he throws punches that border on foul but they are surprisingly effective - he can fight in reverse gear, he has great range, great dynamics, very good timing, very good mentality, it seems much faster than Carnera, has very good cardio, and a surprisingly strong jaw. That's a lot. He's not a stylist. But compared to Galento or Carnera, I definitely put him higher. Moreover, I absolutely do not claim that Wilder is a representative of the great era of HW. I think that the current era, like the Joe Louis era, is relatively weak, but still much better.
     
  10. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    I think this idea that the NBA ratings were the one and only "official" ratings needs addressing. The National Boxing Association - as the name suggests - was a purely US institution which held sway in the majority of US states, but not in New York where Marciano-Charles actually happened, and certainly not internationally. It wasn't the unchallenged final arbiter of who was champion and who deserved a title shot. The Ring was a genuinely international publication and its ratings were accorded a quasi-official status, which is why they were routinely and prominently reported in the media.

    https://ibb.co/yyf183z

    Having said that, I don't disagree that Charles was a perfectly reasonable choice for the first title shot of 1954. Whether you consider him #1 or #2, he was highly rated, by far the best known available contender, and had been the undisputed #1 when he was passed over in favour of Roland LaStarza the previous year.

    But Valdes should have had the second shot of 54, and failing that he should have had the first shot of 55. He wasn't some invincible monster, and he likely wouldn't have beaten Marciano, but he did enough to deserve the chance to try.
     
  11. Gog97675

    Gog97675 Member Full Member

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    Lol this would make sense but then your realize Joe Louis opponents were considered bum even back doing that time frame. Which is why they were called the bum of hte month club. Just because you name name doesn't change that fact. Bob Pastor was a 180 pound guy. Billy Conn was a 170 pound guy. Tom Farr, Tommy Loughram, Lou Nova, Jimmy Bivens were either not heavyweights by modern standards or considered lower tier fighters even doing their life times.

    Heck do you think even a fighter like Buster Douglas would of lost to any of the fighters Louis beat? Louis looked good because he faced . It is like just looking at Deontay Wilder's record and being impressed without looking at the fighters he faced
     
  12. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    But after that epic first Charles fight, people wanted to see a rematch. It makes sense money wise to give Charles other crack at the title after the epic first fight. After the 2nd match, Marciano did split his nose in 2, so we can not really hold a test run against a lower contenter like Cockell against him.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    All ratings are someone's opinion!
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Last edited: May 16, 2024
  15. Gog97675

    Gog97675 Member Full Member

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    Lol and Tony Tucker was champion when Mike Tyson fought him. You can spend it anyway you want but it won't change that Tony Tucker was champion