The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

What punch stats are you talking about? Compubox in 1952?

And did it ever occur to you that racking up numbers against old, befuddled Joe Louis is a bit easier than trying to do the same against a prime Cleveland Williams.

The only thing cold and hard in these parts is the frozen BS on the tundra of Marciano worship.

 

"do you have a source for that?"

I asked Hhascup about if several old fighters had ever been rated by The Ring. I asked about Willie Bean, Eddie Blunt, Johnny Shkor and Bill Poland. He replied that Poland had never been rated--which surprised me--but that the others had. It has been years, but my memory is he said Shkor was rated #9 after defeating Mauriello.

All I can "prove" to a skeptic is that Shkor was rated #12 by the NBA in April, 1947. That info is over at boxrec.

 

I do agree that the argument that Marciano would be vulnerable against big guys has no evidence to back it up at all.

Doesn't necessarily mean it is automatically wrong. Only that it is an unsupported opinion.

And Louis was a more important big man win than Shkor.

 

"I would not describe as world class"

What an arrogant position. If they were rated by the NBA or The Ring they were world class. Does not mean they could beat the champion or perhaps the top contenders, but by definition they were world class.

 

I think the Louis win is also significant tbh.

 

“Columbia is supposed to awaken him in time to warm up, clear his head, and flush his muscles with a quick burst of shadow boxing. But now the word has been passed to bring Rocky into the stadium. Columbo realizes that his watch is slow, although he is certain, at least as certain as he is of anything now, that he has set it at the correct time when he awakened in the morning” Rocky Marciano biography of a first son.
That being said Rocky says he’s relaxes before the fight but I don’t but it watching the first few rounds. He’s obviously cold and he didn’t warm up at the minimum.

 

Liston did not destroy people on the inside. At all. He destroyed them long and mid range. He actually appears not to useful when crowded. Liston though was great at controlling distance and often controlled where he wanted to be. If u can find video proof of Liston even fighting in the pocket at all is he surprised. I just went through four Liston fights to make sure I wasn’t crazy. Even against Patterson who tried to get inside (that’s not his game either) was knocked out by Listons mid range game. Liston was not a pocket fighter like Marciano

 

"A decade back"

Did this author actually see Matthews fight?

Here are excerpts from an article by Barney Nagler in The Ring, July 1952 issue. Page 4

"In the normal course of matchmaking, Marciano should fight Harry Kid Matthews."

"LaStarza, along with Clarence Henry, the Los Angeles left-hooker, Harold Johnson, slick Philadelphian, Dan Bucceroni, another Philadelphian, and Coley Wallace, are other heavyweight hopefuls. None, however, has achieved the status of Marciano or Matthews."

"Matthews certainly is a better all-around fighter than Marciano. He has the natural form of a winning flailer. He is less puncher but more fighter than Marciano. Eastern customers remember him for the whip-lashing imposed on Irish Bob Murphy."

"A meeting of Matthews and Marciano would be a pairing in classic tradition. The slickster vs. the slammer. The IBC would have little difficulty signing Matthews. Professor Hurley lives for the day he can second Matthews against Marciano."

"the best match among the heavyweights is Marciano-Matthews."

"Fight managers have been known to fend off a match by way of spiting their pocketbooks. This is so in the case of Marciano-Matthews."

"The scientific Matthews conceivably does not appeal to the Weills."
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This contemporary take is a bit different. It is implied that it is the Marciano camp which fears Matthews. Looking at it from the point of view of 1952, this was not as surprising as current "Matthews was nothing" types would like it to be. Matthews hadn't lost in 9 years. He was on a 52 bout unbeaten streak. Marciano could punch, but Matthews had only been stopped once on cuts, and had survived big punchers like Murphy. They were many who thought he would outbox Marciano.

One seems to have been Hurley--"Mathews will do to that Marciano just what he did to that Murphy. It will be the same kind of fight."
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W C Heinz on the Murphy fight--"Matthews would belt Murphy so that the cops with the duty out on Eighth Avenue must have felt it. It was the greatest exhibition of body punching I have ever seen."

AP report on Murphy fight--Harry Matthews "showed 6,922 fans in MSG some of the finest boxing seen around her in many years last night."

 

By the way, what is the World Boxing Club?

 

Marciano was certainly positive he would beat Matthews. I think Marciano’s camp referred to him as a paper tiger. That being said I personally don’t know how one can watch Matthews and not c the excellent boxer that he was. He ran into imo the best version of Marciano (Matthews to Charles 2). Because he’s small he will always be Shat on but small quick boxers like Conn get put on a pedestal. I guess it depends who is trying to hype up who.

 

Factually, Matthews in the Marciano bout was heavier than Carpentier or Gibbons against Dempsey, or Conn against Louis. As well as Burns against Johnson.

 

How many big punchers did he face?

 

Carpentier was a world champion.Gibbons has a resume that shits all over Mathews.
Billy Conn was an all time great lhvy champ. Burns was the world heavyweight champ and bang in his prime.

 

It depends on who you managed to beat.
Mathews passed on a title shot with Maxim,do you think Maxim beats Conn?

 

Murphy was a face first slugger, stylistically fine for Mathews, as he was for Maxim.