The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

Louis was not a big puncher when he fought Marciano.
Reynolds and Shkor were washed up.Neither ko'd anybody worth mentioning, Shkor stopped Mauriello on cuts.
Who is the best man Layne KO'd .He stopped a long list of sausages.
Moore was not an elite puncher at heavyweight.
Walcott was a very good puncher,but not an elite one.imo

 

Satterfield over Baker and/or Valdes.

There are a ton of others, like Risko over Godfrey, Pastor over Impellitierre, Loughran over Campolo, Dempsey over Willard, etc.

Sir, I am just not into your fantasies about what anyone would do against men of generations earlier or later. I only evaluate a guy in his own time.

so I am only interested in if the Joe Louis of 1951 is better than Baker or Valdes, not Bowe or Lewis.

"trash"

Besides Louis, Shkor and Wilson had winning records and beat name fighters at one time or another. They certainly weren't as good as the little fellows of their time, but trash. A bit much.

"no evidence"

Yeah. None at all that he couldn't handle big guys because what was there he did handle.

But what would prove what anyway? Does Dempsey beating Willard prove he would beat Vitali or Lewis? Does Louis beating Simon or Buddy Baer (who were beaten about the same time by Eddie Blunt) prove he beats Lewis or Vitali? I don't think beating a big mediocrity of long ago proves anything about how the old champ would do against more skilled big men of generations later. It only really proves there were big mediocrities about for him to puff up his reputation with.

 

This is what he said.
I'm still waiting for you to show me a single instance of a boxer beating a skilled, strong boxer whose 30 lbs heavier in a slug fest.
Any of your examples meet that criteria?

 

And we don't think Marciano beating a big mediocrity proves anything!

 

Layne stopped Bob Satterfield something Nino and Cleveland Williams couldn’t do.
Moore prob has the most KO’s over ranked fighters ever. To say he’s not an elite puncher is an absolute joke and insult to the sport

 

Don’t be a clown I’m referring to style

 

Ever watch Holyfield v Bowe 2
Nino v Satterfield
Satterfield v Williams
Tyson v Bruno
Tyson v Ruddock
I can list a hundred more. Once again I’m not gonna argue w u on the defensive end. Literally everything is against u. Many never been knocked out, punch stats back him up, opponents have said how hard he is to hit, so have corners. Any further argument on that front just won’t happen. Just because u don’t want to believe it doesn’t make it true and honestly it’s a waste of my time to keep pointing out the obvious.

 

Exactly. The very big men of the pre-1960 era were not good enough to prove anything about how anyone would fare against modern big men. I don't think a "giant" being about or not being about should decide historical evaluations. The quality of the opposition should and the best men were the smaller guys.

 

Here are quotes from the October, 1952, The Ring, in the wake of the Marciano=-Matthews fight:

Nat Fleischer--The Ring, October, 1952, page 45----"Matthews, who had won 57 pro battles by knockout, and had been halted only once in a long career, had reached the end of the lane so far as the heavyweight title is concerned. But he is not through by any means. Matthews is still an excellent fighter."

"Matthews classes close to the top in the light-heavyweight division, and henceforth should forget the heavier men and go after Joey Maxim."

Charley Goldman--The Ring, October, 1952, page 18--"I kept telling Rocky. Don't go hooking this guy because he is a fine boxer. Jab him, then hook."

Charley Goldman--page 19--"They say Rocky is no boxer. Matthews is a great boxer and he lasted five minutes four seconds."

Rocky Marciano--The Ring, October, 1952, page 19--"Before the Matthews fight, Goldman kept telling me Matthews was my most serious obstacle. Charley kept preaching that Harry was a greater fighter than either Walcott or Charles."

Dan Daniel--The Ring, October, 1952, page 45--"The fact remains that Hurley, underrating Marciano's punching powers, was extremely confident that his skilled and scientific fighter would make Rocky look bad for ten rounds, and possibly stop him."

 

Those quotes are cool and all but unfortunately, we have film at our disposal.

 

Williams was a last minute sub.
Satterfield was ko'd 13 times,and floored 27 times.
I said Moore was not an elite puncher at heavyweight.

Show me a list that disagrees with that statement.

Have you ever looked at Moore's ko record?

Because I have, about 40% of them were cannon fodder including a couple of wrestlers . .Look up how many were heavyweights.

Also look up how many of those heavyweights were Ring ranked?
A=1. Lavorante, and that was on the basis of a one off ,a ko of Zora Folley. Lavorante was quickly exposed as a flash in the pan who did not belong at top level,tragically he was criminally managed and died as the result of callous match making.

 

KO plenty of people who had careers at HW like Satterfield and Johnson others like Cestac and Bob Baker and Embrell Davidson Jimmy Bivins and others. Good quality people. The best of the best rarely get knocked out and he knocked out a few. He wasn’t feather fisted

 

Then what you said is even funnier.

Braddock and Mathew's styles resemble Roy Jones' style about as much as Butterbean's physique resembles Anthony Joshua's physique.

 

None of those fights are examples of a smaller boxer slugging it out with a guy 30 lbs heavier and winning. First of all, Nino wasn't a "slugger", he was a boxer and wasn't an elite hitter either. As for Williams, he was green and hadn't reached his prime yet, and was a last minute substitute. Tyson was 10 lbs lighter than Ruddock and Bruno. Holyfield did the opposite slugging and boxed Bowe in their 2nd fight. Holyfield boxed Bowe because in their previous fight, he nearly got his little ass knocked out trying to slug with Bowe. So I'm still waiting for you to list the "hundred examples" of a smaller boxer fighting aggressively and winning a slugfest against a skilled opponent at least 30 lbs heavier.

You won't address the defensive wizard argument because you know it doesn't make sense.

Here are some boxers who were considered "defensive wizards"

Floyd Mayweather
Pernell Whitaker
Nicolino Locche
Willie Pep
Jimmy Young
James Toney

Show me the fights where these guys suffered a bunch of black eyes, cuts, bad swelling, or split noses like Rocky...?