The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

I'm aware, what I am saying is he was not unconscious

Louis looked terrible .

 

So did Holmes

 

Whose timing was great against a 1988 Tyson??? You're talking about a H2H monster.

Louis was hot garbage in 1951. That's why, despite huge debt, we didn't see him 7 years later. But we did see Holmes, and Holmes performing well, 7 years after Tyson.

 

The Holmes of '88 wouldn't have use of the '51 Louis as a sparring partner. On film Louis is all over the place, leaning in, holding position there, bad balance, no reflexes. He looks absolutely shocking. A shot fighter going through the motions for a paycheck.

 

We didn’t c Holmes for three years in nothing but losing efforts. Then he went on for 7 years beating tons of nobodies and 1 ok contender. When Louis beat 8 men in a row multiple people who were formally ranked and one or two ranked and one HOF who would regain a ranking. Louis was obviously not Louis but let’s face it neither was Holmes. They were equal wins. This shouldn’t even be an argument. Holmes was literally inactive for two years and winless in three. I was being generous in saying they’re equal

 

Holmes couldn’t carry Louis jockstrap in 51 or any year

 

Holmes had more left in the tank when he faced Tyson than Louis did when he fought Marciano. Holmes has more snap to his punches and more bounce on his toes. His game plan was to tie Tyson up for 3 rounds when he was most dangerous and then open up his offense on him. Problem was his timing was off, and he was always open to right hands. Tyson meanwhile peppered Holmes’s body to lower his guard for his right hand bomb. If I recall correctly Holmes requested a tune up before the Tyson bout but passed on the request when Don King offered more money with no bout to shake the rust.
As for Joe Louis - just watch the Rocky fight - he looks awful. His speed is zilch, his balance is poor, his body language says why am I still doing this. I don’t hate Rocky but you’re dying on the wrong hill if you’re trying say Louis looks good in that fight.

 

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this guy looks no worse then Holmes. Marciano gets no credit for knocking him off balance and making him work the whole fight. Made him look worse than he was. Once again the narrative will change what I’m saying. He obviously wasn’t close to prime. I’m just comparing the quality to a comeback Holmes

 

Louis may have looked better vs Savold because Savold lost most often when he stepped up. Marciano is clearly a better opponent than Savold. However we don’t even know how seriously Louis took Marciano before their encounter. Marciano’s record isn’t strong preceding his bout with Louis. I believe Louis was the favorite too in their bout which in retrospect seems crazy. If you want to say Louis was as good as the 1988 Holmes that came back for Tyson that’s your prerogative. I have to disagree on that one simply using the eye test if nothing else.

 

Good Lord, you are glorifying Louis allegedly dumping a 5-11, 188 pounder who was winding down his career and had lost his previous two fights. Have some self awareness.

Also, some of us have been around long enough to see what is on film. Louis looks absolutely pathetic. His skill and athleticism are completely gone. He's slow as molasses, off balance and can't catch the openings provided. Any success he had was far more indicative of the competition level in that post war era than his condition. And you know who agrees with me? Practically every contemporary writer of Louis, guys who had seen him fight for a decade and a half.

You Marcianistas are the most delusions, un-selfaware bunch this side of Catholics.

 

Are we now discussing who, Tyson or Rocky, beat the most decayed and faded opponent?

This thread is crossing into bizarre territory...

 

I recall recently watching a video where Holmes claims he had a detached retina in his right eye in the Tyson match but couldn't pass up that payday. If you take a look at him today his right eye does look f'd up behind his glasses.

 

We're discussing every spade, diamond, club and heart in the house of cards Marcianistas must build to support the opportunistic, and ultimately underwhelming career, their champion had. It goes places. And they have a poor argument down each cul de sac.

 

I always figured that you're ending up in hell, but your last comment clinches the deal: it's hell for you , son.

 

This is the issue w discussing things w low iq individuals. Despite explaining numerous times to Seamus that neither man looks good he insists,( like I said he would) that I said Louis looked in fine condition…he was a shell of himself as was Holmes. But even as shells they still had something in the tank to beat second raters. As I stated who had the better record in the prior two years? Heck go back three if u want. Holmes had no legs was blind in one eye and hadn’t fought in two years. He also only had a jab. He looked horrible compared to his old self. Louis only looked off balance because Rocky made him unbalanced. He looks fine against Savold Agramonte and Brion on film. Ur just to stubborn to say Marciano did good in anything.
Always knew u were a sick man but insulting Catholics is a new low.