The real reason Max Baer lost the title

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Jun 10, 2019.


  1. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Talk about mischaracterizing those fights. His loss to Farr was hardly the one sided fight the AP report Boxrec characterizes it (I thought Baer won), the Nova fights were back and forth wars in which he was on the verge of winning both times. He was hardly destroyed as you say and its not like Nova was some bum. When Baer beat Galento, despite you calling Galento "shopworn" Galento had, in his previous two fights, challenged and dropped the heavyweight champion and knocked out the number one contender. You use some arbitrary statistic saying "from Louis to Farr he fought 22 times" and then rattle off all of these poor opponents but neglect to mention that the period in question was only a year and half. He fought 22 times in a year and half after getting knocked out by Louis and then took on one of the top contenders in his home country. I think we can label that period for what it was, a confidence building tour and then give the guy credit for jumping into the mix. Then you throw in the asinine comment "I'd say Dempsey fought better men in his own exhibition tour in the 1930's ..." Really? You are equating an EXHIBITION tour in which the longest fight Dempsey had scheduled was with King Levinksy who proceeded to kick Dempsey's ass and upset any idea Dempsey had of returning to the ring for real with an actual professional fighters record in real fights. For those of you who dont know this Max Baer was promotionally associated with Dempsey in 1932. In January of 1932 Baer fought King Levinsky at MSG and beat him on a clear cut ten round decision. Dempsey, considering a comeback, had decided to test the waters in a four round exhibition against Levinsky in Chicago three weeks later. At the time Levinsky was rated #7. Dempsey struggled so badly with Levinsky and looked so shaky at the end of four rounds that papers all across the country criticized his performance. For a time Dempsey considered a rematch with Levinsky over twenty rounds in Reno but quickly gave up the idea realizing that he was through as a fighter. Instead he promoted Baer-Levinsky 2 in Reno and Baer once again took a lopsided win. So please, lets not delude ourselves that Dempsey's exhibition tour of one and two round fights equates to anything like a real career.
     
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  2. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What all of this leaves out is that Max Baer was a bigger radio star than he was a movie star (a fact that continued well into the 1950s). Radio was the biggest and most popular medium of the day at this time. Quoting Max Baer's limited movie rolls as evidence that he wasnt out there working or acting during this period is like saying Bryan Cranston wasnt working much from 2008 to 2013 because he wasnt in a ton of movies but ignores the fact that he was on one of the most popular and highest rated TV shows during that period.
     
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  3. BrutalForeman

    BrutalForeman Active Member Full Member

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    The only thing that stopped Max Baer was Max Baer. He would be a dangerous opponent in any era.
     
  4. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    All good points and context I might add. Let me ask you this... It's my contention that for the Braddock fight, it doesn't matter if Max had outside the ring things going on that distracted him or prevented him from focusing since he didn't even try to win. If you try and win, but then get fatigued and aren't sharp because of outside the ring stuff, okay, but if you don't even try to win, how does outside stuff even matter?
     
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  5. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    And this is why you dont jump into the middle of a discussion without context.

    JANITOR claimed it was his acting career that distracted him, he didnt say anything about his radio career.

    Poor Maxie was making tons of money so he let the title go and couldn't focus. Walcott had a bunch of kids and barely enough to feed himself working 9-5 back breaking jobs while training for his fights.

    Foreman became the richest boxer in history with the grills. He also made time for his church and youth center yet he kept fighting until the establishment basically forced him out with a bogus decision at 50.

    But Max should get a pass according to you clowns because he couldn't stay focused. Bowe and Tyson dont get passes and their lives were far more difficult and they made way more money.
     
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  6. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Klompton your intellectual and emotional shortcomings prohibit you from engaging in discussions without venom. At the same time it's too easy for me to make sport by pushing your buttons so I'll ignore you like most do.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  7. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So you think Baer's work in radio wasnt acting? He wasnt hosting a talk show. Regardless, every fighter is different. Some thrive on chaos while others are inhibited by it. Im not making excuses for Baer. Im just pointing out that the idea that he wasnt THAT distracted by his career outside of boxing because he only appeared in a few movies is a fallacy. I think Baer was physically talented but limited and psychologically weak. But some here have inadvertently mischaracterized certain aspects of his career.

    With all that being said I agree with Kurupt that Baer doesnt appear to be trying against Braddock and despite that the fight was still close (regardless of what the cards said). Ive said before and Ill say again: People love a good story and so they adhere to this idea that Braddock was always a good fighter who just needed some TLC to be able show his true worth. In reality Braddock was a mediocre fighter at his best and was lucky to get an undeserved shot at a mediocre champion who was unmotived and who possibly tanked the fight on purpose to get out of a promotional contract he was unhappy with that would have been extended had he defeated Braddock.
     
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  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I see it like this too.
     
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  9. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just to be clear, I used the term "acting", to encompass film stage and radio.

    He was tremendously active in these fields for an active champion!

    We can expand on it further if it serves any useful purpose!
     
  10. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    There is no need to expand.

    Michael Jordan earned millions in endorsements and kept his focus as did several champions ive mentioned. Why is it so hard to just say max didnt have the heart for it compared to them?
     
  11. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I never said that he did.

    Why is it so hard to admit that the circumstances of Baer's title reign were somewhat unusual?
     
  12. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    They we're unusual. Show me the post where i said dozens of boxers were in the exact same circumstances?

    The point is it doesnt matter what the circumstances were when discussing how much effort baer made in his horrible title defense and some of his other fights. His heart just wasnt in it. Had he gone out on his shield it would be a different discussion but he clearly didnt give boxing 100%. I dont feel there is anything further to discuss unless he had some sort of medical issue or there was some conspiracy against him.

    Bringing up acting and radio gigs are simply excuses to gloss over these facts. As ive mentioned half a dozen times now boxers who were both far less fortunate as well as boxers who made way more money didnt allow themselves to get distracted.
     
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  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    ^^^This. Baer if he liked money could have made a lot of it in his next fight. This one plays out like fixed with with the game, but limited Braddock winning only because Baer wasn't in there to win. Boxing had lots of problems with fixed fights in the 1930's, and Braddock was an 10 to 1 underdog in this fight.

    I've seen the fixed fight with LaMotta, it reeks the same way as this one.

    The effort Bear put both vs Schmeling or Carnera proves he could be aggressive if he wanted to . He did not vs Braddock. He either gave his title away with apathy or took a lot of money not to win it.
     
  14. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Is there any evidence he threw the fight? Were there any reported big gambling coups or last minute big bets on Braddock that would have been reflected in the odds swinging in the opposite direction? I'm not aware of any such fluctuations.
     
  15. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This is the best answer to the question. Let's not question Maxie's heart. I recall seeing the post fight interview of the Galento fight where Joe Louis was sitting in with Max and the interviewer and Max was doing his best to get a rematch with Joe. So much for that tall tale that Louis scared Max to death.
     
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