The Reason People diss ATG's like RJJ, Calzaghe, Hagler, etc

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Stone_Roberto, Oct 28, 2007.


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  1. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Reid, Starie, Woodhall, Eubanks, Mitchell, that other yank, Lacy.
     
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    #46
  2. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    They aren't as famous as Ali's opposition.

    But Joe's performances were better.
     
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    #47
  3. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Nobody is ever percieved as an A-level fighter once Calzaghe has beaten them and nobody is seen as less than A-level after ALi made them look good (Fraizer).
     
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    #48
  4. beatdown

    beatdown Infidel Full Member

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    So Calzghes opponents were A-level? Its really hard to take you serious.
     
    beatdown, Oct 28, 2007
    beatdown, Oct 28, 2007
    #49
  5. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mark Delaney and Henry Cooper were about the same standard. Look how a green Calzaghe destroyed Cooper.
     
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    #50
  6. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    David Starie was as good as Fraizer.
     
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    #51
  7. Ethan Trims

    Ethan Trims Active Member Full Member

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    Call you a ****ing moron.

    I would say the second round was more luck than the seventh. Pavlik stuck his chin out taunting taylor, and than taylor followed up with a combination.
     
    Ethan Trims, Oct 28, 2007
    Ethan Trims, Oct 28, 2007
    #52
  8. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fraizer a practical cruiserweight blown-out by Foreman.

    Starie practically shut-out Clinton Woods.
     
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    China_hand_Joe, Oct 28, 2007
    #53
  9. surreal deal

    surreal deal Liverpool via Krypton Full Member

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    :rofl:rofl:roflwell done china,youve surpassed yourself this time.i salute you.:happy:happy:good
     
    surreal deal, Oct 28, 2007
    surreal deal, Oct 28, 2007
    #54
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Re-read the post. I've covered this.

    Then re-read your responses to each of my posts. This rate of response is about average. That's ok if you're learning as you go, but you're just ignoring anything that cracks your bias reality as regards Calzaghe. To make it easier for you, here is the bottom line, in bold and everything.

    Calzaghe has really bad competition relative to his own talents.

    It is possible for a fighter to become an ATG in the modern era via competition.

    Calzaghe hasn't done this.
     
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2007
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2007
    #55
  11. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I am confused. If you are saying that you cannot be considered and ATG while active, it's not accurate. Hopkins, Jones, and DLH are all considered ATG. Have been for a few years now.

    The problem with Calzaghe is simple. While it is not entirely his fault that he has fought in a weak division, it doesn't change that he lacks great fighters on his resume. He has beaten some good fighters, and one great fighter who was past it, though not shot.

    I am aware of your position that many here contradict themselves when criticizing a fighter like PBF or DLH for jumping from division to division without cleaning it out, and then chastise Calzaghe for cleaning out his. However, the difference is PBF has been in divisions with recognized great fighters who were hightly regarded by everyone, and not fought them. He moved up to find challenges without completing challenges where he was. Calzaghe has done the reverse. While there hasn't been but 3 great fighters by my count around his division, he failed to fight even one. When there were no more challenges in his divison, he didn't leave to find more challenges.

    I think much of the criticism is uncalled for, but some of it is certainly valid. His resume, like Jones before him, does not match his talent. And while it's not his fault his division has never been full of great fighters, he certainly could have moved up to challenge himself once he realized this.
     
    kg0208, Oct 28, 2007
    kg0208, Oct 28, 2007
    #56
  12. Florida boy

    Florida boy Bodacious Full Member

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    Pavlik didnt stick his chin out, he stuck his tongue out after the first punch hurt him. then he got hit again with a follow up shot that visibly hurt him, taylor pounced and put him down. people make to many excuses for him getting put on his ass.
     
    Florida boy, Oct 29, 2007
    Florida boy, Oct 29, 2007
    #57
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    This is total, desperate, shite. This is just an out and out lie which allows you to continue calling Calzaghe an ATG fighter without more than the tiniest sliver of proof. Mayweather is an ATG. He hasn't retired yet. Morales was an ATG before he retired. In fact Morales will probably fight again, a sort of "fairwell" thing. Jones isn't retired - firm ATG. The list goes on and on. But keep making up weird lies if it helps you.


    If he loses this one he'll be nobody. A talented fighter with a hugely padded record who lost to the best he faced. You're already enshringing him. Pitiful.

    You know what? If you want to insist that Tyson isn't an ATG, I won't argue with you to hard. After all, such lofty status should be really, really, really, really hard to come by.



    This is a miserable argument. Truly pitiful. Ali comes from one of the deepest, long-lived divisions. Calzaghe comes from one of the youngest, possibly shallowest division of all time. He might be all time number 1 or 2 for this division. But he didn't fight more than two meaningful fights, and no ATG fighters. Many were available.

    God, this is getting embaressing. You've said this about 15 times. I just have to check with you - you do know that moving divisions is allowed for fighters? You do know they do it all the time? You do know it is possible for your boy? Guys do it to make big fights and secure legacy. Now, i've said this to you three times, but you've never responded, I think because you DO know it's true (surely!) but just don't want to deal with it.

    Secondly, if Joe wants to attract the best from lower divisions he needs to be in the states. Sorry if you don't like hearing this either but it's true. He showed little ambition so he got little reward. Now he, and his fans, and even his insane fans (sorry) have to live with that.


    You're right! Let's throw Tyson as an ATG out!

    Do you remember how that subject came up? It was a tiny little sliver of an argument in response to your (now altered) argument that it's not possible to become an ATG fighter based on resume in this day and age. There were many other fighters mentioned. There have been others mentioned since.

    You've gone nowhere near any of this. Picking on Tyson is meaningless and a cowardly.

    My arguments are flawed? You have failed miserabley to prove that because yours are non-exsistant.
     
    McGrain, Oct 29, 2007
    McGrain, Oct 29, 2007
    #58
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