The Redemption of Primo Carnera (Video)

Here is my problem with what they are saying:

Super heavyweights have cr4p technique generally, and get away with it.

Riddick Bowe effectively threw away his reach advantage, by brawling with smaller opponents on the inside.

Vitally Klitschko fought with his hands at his side, and backed up whenever the heat was on.

Wladamir Klitschko couldn't fight on the inside, if Primo Carnera had showed him how to do it.

These men are held up as "modern skilled super heavyweights", while Carnera who didn't have any major gaps in his technical game, is criticized for faults that are little more than aesthetic.

 

He was not weak in these departments, but lacking enough to put some sort of check on his progress.

If he had the power and chin of a Jess Willard (or even just the power perhaps), then you would probably have had some sort of dominant champion.

 

I would be more critical of a super heavyweight, who did not back away from a smaller opponent, who was a dangerous puncher.

That is just basic military logic.

 

Perhaps you would suggest that he use that amazing jab he possesses especially when the smaller aggressive man is carrying his hands low. That is just plain ol’ logic.

 

OK, fair enough.

In that case, we need a stylistically close fighter to Carnera, in order to compare and contrast. Whom would you nominate as stylistically closest to Primo Carnera?

 

There is none.

Think of a hybrid between Lennox Lewis and Alexander Dimitrenko!

 

You can only do so much with a jab.

It will not stop a determined attacker on its own.

Even if it could, it is simple common sense, to keep a shorter fighter walking into your punches.

If somebody has to walk into your punches, it maximizes their impact.

If you have the reach advantage, then why would you not do that?

 

Ok, a few things.

First, if you sincerely think that our Carnera criticisms are merely aesthetic then I have to question how well you understand boxing technique. To criticize a boxer's punching mechanics and his tendency to reach and push with his punches obviously goes far beyond a concern with mere aesthetics. If you don't get this then you don't get basic punching technique. I won't even get into the other technical flaws that have been discussed at length elsewhere for now, in other threads, but they're not merely aesthetic criticisms either.

Second, your supposed technical criticism of Bowe is really a strategic criticism, and its a highly exaggerated one at that. Bowe clearly had a much better jab than Carnera, was far more lethal at range, and landed plenty of telling blows from distance. Your description of Bowe, above and in other threads, reads like an inaccurate caricature from someone who probably hasn't actually seen many of his fights. If Bowe and Carnera fought and weren't allowed to come within three feet of each other, Bowe would still slaughter him.

Third, what evidence do you have that Wlad couldn't fight on the inside? It's clear that he preferred not to fight there when he didn't have to, but what did you see Wlad do on the inside that leads you to believe that Carnera was technically superior there? How many fighters beat him on the inside?

BTW, in your understanding of the term, is it a technical flaw that much smaller men often landed hard punches on Carnera from distance?

 

People are actually making Baer look good here, by trying to minimize what Carnera did!

Any comments that place Baer in a favorable light, will of course be noted!

 

You can't be serious.

 

That makes things trickier, but it'll do.

Currently, mrkoolkevin and the anti-Carnera faction have criticized several technical flaws in Carnera. I think they've cited specific films showing those flaws.

Your main defense is that other superheavies have the same flaws as Carnera. You just said that Dimitrenko and Lennox Lewis are the two closest parallels to Carnera. So for now, the burden of proof is on you: Find Dimitrenko and Lennox committing the same errors as Carnera.

Once you do that, the burden shifts back to the anti-Carnera faction.

 

Bowe may well have opted for close-up action, at times, but his offensive arsenal was not restricted to his inside game. His right cross, traveled some distance from the outside and was more often than not the instigator of a finish.

To the best of my knowledge, Vitali was never backed up by a sub-200lb opponent.

I have lots of issues with Wlad, not least his lack of an inside game. I think he is somewhat overrated but, nonetheless, he would have more than likely hospitalized poor Carnera. I do not need a deep-dive analysis to come to this conclusion.

I do think the 'skills' aspect of the modern Super Heavyweight is often overplayed, but how much more did these guys need to do, in order to demonstrate significant improvements on the type of performances Carnera put on, regularly?

Sub-200lb boxers should not be taking it big-time to a 260lb opponent. Levinsky, Lasky, Loughran - I do not think these guys would have pushed either Bowe or the K brothers more than a few rounds - and I'm being optimistic with the timeframe.

 

No, I am not saying that the men that I mentioned, committed the same mistakes as Carnera!

They committed mistakes that Carnera would have been embarrassed by!

Carnera knew how to use his reach advantage, and was brilliant on the inside!

I did not pick Lewis and Dimitrenko as analogues because I saw the same mistakes in them!

I picked them because I saw the same range of abilities in them!