The Riddick Bowe who beat Holyfield in their first fight vs Lennox Lewis who beat

Or Bowe could've blown up 30 pounds and gotten outboxed by a guy he'd already beaten. Whichever comes first.

I don't know, what does that have to do with anything?

Yes it does. What actually happens matters as much as anything.

Not that I saw.

Just off the top of my head...

Kid Gavilan after beating Johnny Bratton
Tony DeMarco after beating Johnny Saxton
Benny Paret after beating Don Jordan
Emile Griffith after beating Paret
Buster Douglas after beating Tyson

Joey Archer would've had to make his first defense against Benvenuti if he had won his rematch with Griffith.

That's not counting all the times a fighter had to make an immediate rematch with the fighter he won the title from, of which there are countless examples.

So why had Bowe already agreed to fight him if he beat Ruddock, then? He wasn't "high risk/ low reward" before he made a name for himself by fighting Ruddock, yet somehow he was afterward?

You don't know that at all.

Besides which, if he was likely going to get knocked out, then what was the risk in fighting him?

Not necessarily true. Mercer and McCall both had renown, proven iron chins, unlike Bowe, and Mercer and Bruno both had experience fighting big punchers (win or lose) which Bowe hadn't.

Besides which, you could just as well talk about Lewis taking advantage of the same flaws that Biggs, Tubbs, Holyfield, Golota, etc. did in their fights with Bowe.

 

99% of your post is as speculative as my opinion, and thats what these forums are for my friend.
You cant use the fighters of the far past as examples, there was no PPV or million dollar paydays to protect. As far as Douglas and Holyfield, Douglas had no choice as he would have lost all his titles, unlike Bowe who had other choices if he chose to retain two of the three belts.

 

If you had read my post more carefully you'd be aware that Tubbs had beaten RING-magazine top 10-rated young, slick genuine active contender Orlin Norris since his fight with Tyson.
Which is more than Ray Mercer did in the 4 1/2 years prior to facing Lewis.

Like I said, what happened to Tubbs after he fought Bowe is less relevant, but I back up my claim that the Butler 1st round loss is "**** happens" by showing that he went on to beat 3 decent fighters in the 6 months following. Losing a 1st round KO in heavyweight division in the manner Tubbs lost to Butler is not as much an indictment on his ability as fighting a dubious draw with Marion Wilson, or barely managing to go 1-1 with Ferguson, which all happened to Mercer before he fought Lewis.
That's a huge difference. I'm being generous even discussing the Butler thing.
Now you're clutching at straws with the Jimmy Ellis thing.

Again, going on about stuff that happened to Tubbs 2 1/2 years after is hardly a good comeback to facts about how proven and how good a fighter Mercer was going in against Lewis.

Not really. It was a good result because Butler was ranked, but Butler obviously hadn't trained for the fight, and came in a whopping 35 pounds heavier than he'd been when he KO'd Tubbs.

He was 14 pounds fatter against Lewis, but gave a decent fight. Yes.
Hot and cold is true. I think he was hot for Holyfield, and just a bit warm for Lewis.

You argue that Mercer was at his best simply because he boxed well against Lewis, but you CHOOSE to believe Tubbs was a lesser fighter or way off his best when he boxed well against Bowe.
Despite the facts, you cling to a prejudiced view.

Wrong. 1991 Tubbs was still good.
Put Mercer in with a 1985 Page, 1986 Witherspoon and 1988 Tyson, and even a 1989 Norris (which you dont even know about) and I seriously doubt he'd do any better.
The fact that previous to Lewis, Mercer had been troubled by Ferguson, Wilson and schooled by an old Holmes suggests he probably would have slipped up against one of Tubbs' "meaningless" opponents too.

 

Yes, and coming off a win over Ray Mercer.

Ferguson followed the loss to Bowe with a win over Rocky Pepeli, then fought an in-shape Ray Mercer where Mercer had the chance to avenge the loss and prove his superiority, and guess what ? Mercer won a disputed split-decision.

They were joke defenses.
And Mercer would have been a BIGGER joke than Ferguson at the time.
Dokes had been "destoyed" by Dokes and Holyfield according to you, okay, but Mercer had lost to Ferguson and 42 year old Holmes and lucky to get a draw with friggin' Marion Wilson prior to fighting Lewis, and none of that even means anything to you !

Dokes was a washed-up fighter with a 50-3-2 record, just a "name". But Lennox Lewis fought his fair share of those types too, and they tend to get boosted.
It's double standards.

Mercer was NOT a top 10 contender throughout the 1990s, it's just that he was the 1988 Olympic champion so he was always being built up as a "prospect" and given extra chances and leeway. He should have been a contender throughout the decade but he was not. Of course Tubbs and Dokes were veterans and on the decline when the 1990s rolled in, obviously on their way out, but around 1990-1993 they were about as much use as Mercer proved in the lead-up years to the Lewis fight. Mercer really wasn't particularly impressive.
As for Ferguson, for whatever reason he was Mercer's equal head-to-head.
And he was just too fat and huffing-and-puffing against Lewis to seriously believe he was at his best.

 

I believe Bowe was supposed to fight Mercer but Mercer went and lost to Jesse Ferguson who got the shot instead. Bowe vs Mercer would've been interesting.

 

Mercer was never particularly good.
He boxed well against an already fading Holyfield in his best fight, and did well against Lewis even when he was fat.

But let's not kid ourselves, he never looked great even in his best wins.

Lewis fans and people who say "90s heavyweights were so great, better than 80s" just kid themselves about men like Ray Mercer.

 

Lazy bums who squander their talent and clearly duck their olympic conquerors (n matter how you spin it he ducked Lewis) dont deserve any breaks.

 

Bowe was a warrior who gave us, the fans, some of the most entertaining gutsy thrills of the era, and probably suffers ill effects from those wars to this day, so he deserves some respect.

Watch the Holyfield trilogy and the two brutal Golota wars if in any doubt.

 

Lewis should shake Bowe's hand for not fighting him because his resume would have another KO loss on it. Lewis at that stage was not as good as Bowe, its okay saying that he beat him in the amateurs, big deal! Tillman beat Tyson in the amateurs, Biggs beat Lewis himself and we know how both those fights went in the pros, it was also a typical amateur stoppage. What would of happened if Lewis had been fighting Vitali in an amateur fight in that second round, what would of happened if he fought Briggs in the amateurs when he got rocked?

People think because Bowe did not fight him because he knew he would lose to him, thats just silly. If fighters knew who they were going to win and lose to then Tyson would of never of picked Holyfield would he?

 

No, facts and history are often discussed as well.

That Bowe had agreed to fight Lennox if he beat Ruddock is a fact.
That Bowe reneged an agreement which he had willingly entered into is a fact.
That other champions have been similarly criticized for turning down top challengers or backing out of big fights is a fact.
That there is a precedent for a fighter being mandated to make his first defense against a particular contender should he win the title is a fact.

Saying, "Bowe most likely would've beaten him anyway" is purely speculation, and very questionable one at that.

So? Their titles/paydays were no less important to them. If anything, the fact that it was harder for them to make big money would only be more reason for them to want to sit on their titles and milk them.

Besides which, how would Bowe risk "losing" a million dollar payday by fighting Lennox? Are you saying Lennox himself wouldn't have been a million dollar payday?

Again, so what? The fact remains, there is a precedent for a new champion having to make a mandated defense out of the gate. That's the price for getting their title shot. It's no different than being mandated to make an immediate rematch with the fighter you beat for the title.

 

What type of agreement was this ?
Have you got details ?
Not that I doubt your claims, just trying to piece all the documented history together.

 

There was basically a round robin tournament set up between Holyfield, Bowe, Ruddock, and Lewis (Holy was the champ and the other three were considered the top contenders). Holy was supposed to defend against one of the three, with the other two matched against each other, after which the winner of the title fight would be matched with the winner of the other fight. All parties involved agreed to this arrangement. Holy signed to defend against Bowe, and Lewis and Ruddock were matched, both fights taking place only a week or so apart. Incidentally, most people expected Ruddock to beat Lewis and Holy to beat Bowe.

 

So there was too much risk for Bowe to face Lennox, which would have risked a fight with Holyfield, but in reality Lennox was lucky he didnt face him because he would have been beat easily anyway despite proving to be the best HW of the past 20years and Bowe being stylistically made for Lewis. Yep OK

 

Lets hope this doesnt happen to the Super 6, someone could walk away with 2 belts after 2 fights and say 'screw the rest of them I'm off to fight bums'