The Ring magazine - Froch, Bute, Ward, Cloud, Dawson, Kessler

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, Mar 7, 2011.


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  1. Matt Ldn

    Matt Ldn Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Johnsons record doesnt tell the full story hes a tough fighter. I cant argue that overal record Bute is ahead of Ward but ratings are about the fighters where they currently stand and if someone is looking good against good opp its better than looking good against B level opp.
     
    Matt Ldn, Mar 9, 2011
    Matt Ldn, Mar 9, 2011
    #31
  2. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Im not going to break down every point on here but I dont think it is right.
    Remember I like Froch, but how can you put Froch above Kessler? Froch lost to Kessler and in his next fight beat a fighter coming off a loss. You cant then elevate him over a fighter he just lost to in his last fight.
    It seems to me that The Ring want to get an American Ring champ in alot of ways as many predict Ward to win and they have now made Ward #1 and I wouldnt be shocked if they said Froch - Ward provided they both win, would be for their vacant title.

    Also how do you explain Cloud for beating Zuniga on points goes above Dawson when Zuniga was beaten in 4 rounds by Bute and that wasnt considered (understandably) that big a deal
     
    bailey, Mar 9, 2011
    bailey, Mar 9, 2011
    #32
  3. dru626

    dru626 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    well, if you put it that way...Andrade was #3 the first time Bute beat him and #5 in their second fight. This debate has 2 ways....1. is the resume talk and the 2nd is the skills talk
     
    dru626, Mar 9, 2011
    dru626, Mar 9, 2011
    #33
  4. dru626

    dru626 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I know where you're coming from but...Bute and Ward have some B lever opp in their resume....and Ward haven't looked nearley as good as Bute did. Have you thought about that? How do you explain it ?
     
    dru626, Mar 9, 2011
    dru626, Mar 9, 2011
    #34
  5. Matt Ldn

    Matt Ldn Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I know they do but im saying ratings are about current form and Ward has been beating Top level opp in his last few fights whereas Bute has been beating B level opp. Ward has an ugly style but its effective and hes beating top guys.
     
    Matt Ldn, Mar 10, 2011
    Matt Ldn, Mar 10, 2011
    #35
  6. iceferg

    iceferg Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ward - Froch isn't a terrible title fight for a vacant title compared to other sanctions. Froch is massively over rated though and is really just a Sakio Bika type fighter (Bika is better imo) who has just had the right fights at the right times really. Ward is the best fighter atm followed by Bute and Kessler (who might be declining), followed by Bika, Froch and Dirrell then followed by people like Green and AA. I have not included the other title holder because I've yet to see him but he's probly another AA type fighter. That was not an exact ranking either just my opinion of the level each of those guys are fighting at.
     
    iceferg, Mar 10, 2011
    iceferg, Mar 10, 2011
    #36
  7. dru626

    dru626 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Corection : he's only beaten 1 top guy and that win is debatable. I am not a heater but Super 6 is 70% Propaganda.
     
    dru626, Mar 10, 2011
    dru626, Mar 10, 2011
    #37
  8. Big Left

    Big Left Boxing Addict Full Member

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    they show biase to American fighters, the likes of Dawson, Williams, Cloud, Alexander were all rated as great fighters (Dawson and Williams p4p elite) but they guys who beat them were not rated.
     
    Big Left, Mar 10, 2011
    Big Left, Mar 10, 2011
    #38
  9. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    With due respect you are missing the point. The thread isnt a Bute - Ward thread but to do with the Ring ratings.
    Froch shouldnt be rated above Kessler because he just lost to Kessler. Ward shouldnt be rated above Bute as his overall resume isnt as good.
    Why should Cloud be put above Dawson for beating Zuniga etc
     
    bailey, Mar 10, 2011
    bailey, Mar 10, 2011
    #39
  10. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Dru626 is correct. Ward has a good win over Kessler but it isnt overall than what Bute has done.
     
    bailey, Mar 10, 2011
    bailey, Mar 10, 2011
    #40
  11. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    It does often appear that way, yet then people claim their ratings are legit.
    Dawson was highly rated for struggling to beat double figure losses Johnson and Tarver who had a loss to Johnson. 2 fighters who were like 14-15 years older than Dawson. Now Cloud is rated above Dawson for beating Zuniga :admin at LHW, on points, who Bute blasted out in 4 rounds at SMW :patsch.
     
    bailey, Mar 10, 2011
    bailey, Mar 10, 2011
    #41
  12. The_President

    The_President Boxing Addict banned

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    Bute doesn't deserve to even be in the list. The hype job is a class A example of promotion someone who has fought literally, no one.
    Can't wait to see Ward whip that canned and preserved square ass so we can move onto the next hyped nobody.
     
    The_President, Mar 10, 2011
    The_President, Mar 10, 2011
    #42
  13. conraddobler

    conraddobler Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I'm confused about your thesis. You said Ring favors Americans. But you're also pissed about Froch being ahead of Kessler. So Ring favors Brits too, I guess.

    There is no perfect way of defining rank orderings in boxing.

    Rank the three: Cotto, Margarito, Mosley.

    No doubt you could come up with some very bailey-specific rank ordering, and you would declare it perfect. You would probably rank it like this:

    1. Calzaghe
    2. Margarito
    3. Cotto
    4. Mosley

    or like this:

    1. Calzaghe
    2. Mosley
    3. Cotto
    4. Margarito

    who knows? Who knows what goes on in the mind of bailey?
     
    conraddobler, Mar 10, 2011
    conraddobler, Mar 10, 2011
    #43
  14. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    bailey, Mar 10, 2011
    bailey, Mar 10, 2011
    #44
  15. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    You must feel that Ward is a bit hyped also then :think? Ward has beaten an unwell double vision suffering Kessler but other than that has beaten Green on points, a fighter who was floored and beaten by Miranda and KOd by a fighter in his 40s straight after, Miranda who was beaten more convincingly by Bute, Bika, a fighter beaten more convincingly by Bute.
    Do you think Wards win over Kessler is overall better than Butes wins over Andrade twice, Zuniga, Berrio etc
     
    bailey, Mar 10, 2011
    bailey, Mar 10, 2011
    #45
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