The RJJ who beat Ruiz v Prime Tyson

Ok then, a PRIME Ali as you put it, got dumped on his ass HEAVILY against a 13 stone Henry Cooper ffsake, and only the glove getting changed saved him, he was out on his feet no queston, if Cooper could do that with ONE left hook what do you think Tyon would have done???

 

Let's not forget that murderous puncher Sonny Liston really got to him as well... One of the best finishers in boxing history couldn't even put a dent in Ali - even when Ali was virtually blind for one round.

Plus he was not in his true prime in the first Cooper fight and the glove changing made Ali get an extra 6 seconds on the corner! No way would he have won if that hadn't happened!

 

Sonny Liston The guy was as slow as a week in the jail, just waiting to be beat, Ali came along at the right time, simple as that.

"Ali got an extra 6 seconds in the corner! No way would he have won if that hadn't happened" Thank you, so you agree then.

 

**** me, I knew if I hung around long enough there would eventually be something you said that I would agree with.

 

Tyson KO 1

 

Yeah, forget he took shots from Frazier, Liston, Foreman, Shavers, Lyle and focus on the Cooper fight when a young Clay got clipped, went down and went on to score a stoppage...

 

We've had 2 interesting candidates for Alis prime. First stab was just after a 3 year layoff and then the second guess of when he was 21 years old before he won the title.

Will the next choice be after the Spinks rematch??

 

Personally, I think his prime was when he fought Wepner. I mean who knows when his true prime was....

 

A "young Clay" as you say, is the same guy the other poster reckons was in his prime, so which one is it. Foreman, Shavers big hitters, zero speed.
The only reason ALI beat Foreman is because Foreman went for it and ran out of steam in the African heat, you could have blown him over with a feather:yep

 

If the bell hadnt went against Cooper ALI was finished, he had a full 75 seconds to recover cause of the glove

 

Ah, but the thing is we will never know - I mean he got up and lets say there was about 1 minute left in the round, I believe Ali would have had enough sense to move around the ring and avoid getting hit, plus even if he was tagged and dropped a couple of more times it may not have led to a stoppage - refs were a LOT more lenient back then.

Ali could and should have been gone when Frazier floored him in the last round of their first fight, yet he got up and fought like nothing had happened.

 

Who has EVER called the 21 year old, pre-championship version of Clay that fought Cooper, "prime"?:huh

Maybe if Tyson had heart and ring smarts like that he wouldn't have gotten KO'd every single time a talented fighter asked him serious questions?

 

I think Ali had two primes..... a mental one and a physical one.

Some fighters have periods where it all comes together for a short spell (Bowe, Cotto etc) whilst others (Ali especially, maybe Hopkins also) are at their absolute peak in one element whilst remaining strong in the other......

Like Gaz says, there is very little evidence of Tyson overcoming hardship in order to win a fight - other than perhaps Bruno I - and Frank has previous for losing a fight that he should have won.... Douglas took the aura away, Holyfield broke him and effectively finished him, whilst Lewis, Williams and McBride just fed from the corpse.

 

The only reason Tyson lost a fight was down to drink, drugs and women, no other reason, no-one would have beaten him if he had kept the head. He would have ko'd Ali badly. For me Ali was remembered through rose tinted glasses, some of his fights were terrible to watch, actually most of them were. Keep on telling everyone your the greatest and the lemmings will listen eventually:yep

 

Maybe thats the difference. Tyson was "WHAT IF?", Ali just DID.

It very easy to look back at a shortened career and get carried away with what might have been.