The Rocky Marciano versus Trevor Berbick

Calling Larry Holmes a cowardis nonsense.
Boxing is a business. There are many reasons that someone may not be matched up against the top contender. Insufficient compensation is a sound reason. Larry Holmes fought his way up from nothing to become a champion of the world. I’m not a big fan of him personally. I admire those who have taken those three steps at that level. Having achieved what he did. Should he care about his health and families security, or satisfying some Couch Captain who can’t understand his struggle or care about him as a person and throws words too freely?
The fact that You can't see that and think that others may be lacking self reflection says much more about you.

 

Coward? I think not

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Tunney was a stand -offish prig who was disdainful towards the press and had a condescending air in general.
He was also an ice- cold boxer who never let his emotions rule his actions in the ring.
No surprise he never garnered the popularity of Dempsey.

 

No, he OPENLY ducked these guys. Made no bones about it. Said things like "I like fighting little guys for big money." Talked at length about he wouldn't fight Thomas because "they got to give me someone that I can beat." Years ago, I owned the copies of the magazines with these quotes in them, I read them, was disgusted, and I still am.

A champion has to defend against the best, or he's not a real champion. Period. You can call me a "couch captain" all you like and all that makes you is another internet warrior. I don't know you and you don't know me. I am not going to brag about the things I have done in my life...they may or may not be true. I come here to talk about boxing, and Larry Holmes, whose chosen profession was boxing, disgraced the sport by using his status as "champion" to protect himself. What is more, he contributed the mess that we are in today by giving credibility to the IBF, contributed to the porliferation of "titles" rather than their unification.

Now, prepare for a little keyboard shouting: NONE OF THIS WAS CONTROVERSIAL IN HIS TIME. No one would have said two words to me for saying that is actions were disgraceful, cowardly, or anything else.

If you don't like talking about boxing, maybe this is not a good place for you. I will let you decide that. But what I am saying is 100% true, at a time it would not have been controversial.

 

He wasn't a great champion. He openly told promoters and sanctioning bodies that he would not fight guys he thought could beat him. I did not invent this. He used to say these things to reporters.

He was a coward. And his actions hurt boxing in a way that it has never quite recovered from. That is just fact.

 

Sewage

 

LOL It is unfortunate that you did not keep those magazines!

The reality is that he felt cheated King. Don King had the WBC in his pocket, there are threads, books and movies about Don King‘s chicanery. It is understandable Larry Holmes would not want to do business with him and the WBC by proxy. There is more to the story than I think you can grasp based on your repetitive uninformed posts, for example Page would have a much stronger argument had he not lost to David Bey.Frankly, I don’t have a problem with saying that Larry didn’t fight some people who were more deserving. I am not a Larry Holmes fan. I just don’t call him a coward.

The people pulling the strings, Don King andthe WBC for example, all became rich, but their fighters who did not stand up for themselves like Larry are broke, dead and/or brain damaged. I assume that you have done loads for them and their families. Out of all the parties . . . the promoters, the organization’s, you place the blame on a fighter?!

I think it is possible to discuss boxing witout denigrating the character the fighters.

Again, calling him a coward is a fine example of being a keyboard warrior,Also, don’t be confused there is no distinction between a couch captain and a keyboard warrior.It is a little bit funny new that you would accuse somebody of being a keyboard warrior and then state that you were going to engage in some “keyboard shouting”. I don’t know you, but my guess is that this irony will be lost on you.

Thank you, I do appreciate giving me the keyboard shouting warning!

 

Right back at you.

 

Actually, you are uninformed, because he said exactly what I wrote. He outright said that he would only fight if they gave him guys that he could beat, and people were shocked over it. One reporter wrote, and this is a slight paraphrase "Figthers have used the title to protect themselves in the past, but none have ever said so openly."

Or something to that effect.

As for me being a keyboard warrior--well, you more than me. You would not be saying these things to my face. Larry Holmes has a public record which is open to judgement by anyone. You are the one calling names from the safety or your chair. Physician, heal thyself. I am not going to say I could whip your ass, because I have no way to prove it and no interest in doing so. Anything I say about myself might or might not be true, and vice versa. But you have no idea who I am, and are only talking this way because you yourself are a keyboard warrior.

So there we have it. We can keep going with this, because the longer it goes on, the more the truth gets out there. Holmes ducked guys because he did not want to lose the title. He ducked and bragged that he was doing it. The entire world knew so at the time. That is why he fought a LHW thinking he was going to cruise his way into tying a record.

I'll say it over and over again keyboarder. BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH.

 

Honest question: What kind of evidence on this topic would you consider to have any probative value?

Why the strawmen? It's of course perfectly reasonable to think that Marciano could beat guys like Bruno or Berbick--I never suggested otherwise.

 

Sociological or historical studies published in peer reviewed journals, or in books by reputable academic presses.

 

If you didn’t include my post it would difficult to know who are responding to, so that you believe that is what you read does not make it any more likely. Again, you are the one engaging in name calling.....calling a fighter a coward.

 

Burns
Johnson
Dempsey
Schmeling
Louis
Marciano
Frazier
Fought Light Heavies for the title, though none were 199.5lbs as Spinks was.

I expect we will get all those primary sourced, verified quotes of Holmes saying these things posted by you this week won't we?

You should move to the General Forum.