The Sam Langford nursery rhyme

I fear langford is beginning to overtake ruby in my p4p list.

By my reckoning, in his prime sam only lost 8 times, never stopped and about half of those were news decisions.

Between 1908 and 1916 he really was something fierce beating everyone he met.

Even more staggering is his lower weight exploits where when he could be called green.

 

"Jack Dillon at his peak
never got a shot at Sam Langford,who I have read was reluctant to meet Jack Dillon at even weights. "

Burt, I've seen you post this before. Where did you read this? I've never come across anything like this before and have a hard time imaging Langford fearing Dillon when he had no qualms fighitng against a guy like say Harry Wills. But, now that I reread what you wrote if you're saying he was reluctant to meet a request to have to drop a certain amount of weight to meet him I could see where he would be reluctant to agree to that depending on the period of time and how much weight he were asked to drop.

 

highly possible (but arguable) victories over:

joe gans (top 3 lightweight all time)
Joe walcott (top 5 welter of all time)
stanley ketchel (top 5-10 middleweight of all time)
tiger flowers (top 10-15 middleweight of all time)
philly jack o'brien (top 10-15 light heavy of all time)
wills, mcvey, jeanette (top 15-30 heavies of all time)

in the context of JUST the best wins, i think langfords record is the best of all time

 

his resume is certainly IMO, the best of all time. I still think fitz leaves the greatest legacy in the history of the sport.

The one thing that stopped me ranking Langford was my underestimation of his skillset. I never realised just how consistent he actually was during his peak years.

 

C,I had read a couple articles in very old Ring Magazines [probably the
1930s], where the writer stated,that Sam Langford was never" anxious to meet the middleweight Jack Dillon",at Dillon's peak. I recall myself asking my dad who Jack Dillon was ,as I never heard his name before.? Then I
started to read about the prowess of the young bullish "Jack the Giant Killer.Whether or not Langford feared Dillon at the time ,or felt there was
less dangerous fish to fry, is pure conjecture. But read it I did. Dillon was a very powerful middleweight who was greatly feared in his day. Tough as can be with his famous crewcut haircut, atop massive shoulders. I give him a 50/50 shot at the 160-70 pound Sam Langford. But today the prime Jack Dillon is sorely forgotten. :hi:

 

Yes, I agree that Dillon seems to be very underrated today. I learned quite a bit about him while researching Billy Miske.

 

Langford went in without hesitation against some of the most feared fighters of his era from lightweight to heavyweight, so it is hard for me to swallow that a man who fought Harry Wills, Sam McVea, Fred Fulton, Stanley Ketchel, Joe Walcott, Joe Gans, Jack Blackburn, Kid Norfolk, Young Peter Jackson, ad infinitum, is going to hesitate or balk when Jack Dillon's name is thrown out there. He's faced far more imposing fighters, both physically and skillwise.

The evidence seems to suggest that if anything it would have been Dillon who was avoiding Langford. Did Dillon ever fight a black fighter? I have read that he avoided black fighters.

He was strong and tough and hard to beat. But his style is made to order for Langford from all I've read about him. I give him very little chance of beating Sam langford.

 

Langford was fast enough to compete with Jack Blackburn, Joe Walcott , Joe Gans and Tiger Flowers .. I'm sure he was as fast as Norfolk who was fast but not known for exceptional speed .. in addition, Greb was not exactly unhittable ... take a good look at his nose ... again, love Greb and he was exceptional without question but simply doubt he could handle Langford ...

 

Surf, do not underestimate Jack Dillon. Not for nothing did Teddy Hayes,the great alltime trainer who saw everyone from Joe Gans to Mickey Walker,
consider the prime Jack Dillon 'the greatest fighter he ever saw".
To learn more about this forgotten great fighter ESB, please google :
"Jack Dillon boxer" than 4 down CLICK : The Mike Casey Archive...
This great mini bio will OPEN YOUR EYES, ESB... He was that great:good

 

Oh I don't underestimate him. I've studied his career and consider him one of the greatest. It's just that Langford fought BETTER fighters than Dillon throughout his career. Bigger fighters, stronger fighters, faster fighters, more skilled fighters....just greater fighters overall. At mw he was clamoring for a title shot vs Stanley Ketchel, the most destructive middleweight of the era and one of the greatest of all time, and yet he's going to steer clear of Jack Dillon?? (who wasn't the greatest MW of ANY time). He is willing to face the cannons of a 200-plus pound monster like Sam McVea, but avoid little 160 lb Dillon? He will slug it out with a towering powerhouse like Harry Wills but is wary of Jack Dillon?

See how this all just doesn't add up?

Again, not knocking or underestimating Dillon. I just see little to back up this assertion, which was made decades after thier careers were over, yes? I would need to see some primary source proof to believe this, something that was written at the time indicating Langford ducked Dillon. Not something written decades later. We all know what crazy yarns boxing writers can spin!

This thing doesn't make any sense in light of the well-known fact that Langford avoided NO ONE. In fact I can guarantee that he would have leaped at the chance to fight Dillon or any other top mw or light-heavy. The man was hungry for fights and took them wherever and whenever he could. If Sam avoided someone it would have been BIG news, especially since it was he who was usually the one being avoided.

I wouldn't be surprised if The Ring got that backwards. They probably meant that it was Dillon who was not anxious to meet Langford. That would make more sense in light of JD's proclivity for avoiding black battlers. Know what I mean?

 

I've read tremendous praise for Dillion but there is no film I have seen of the man and actually few photos ... I have read that Greb fought him when Jack was clearly past his best ...

 

S,I am not making judgment on the great Sam Langford, I am just the messenger. As I have read years ago,and what Mike Casey has written in his great article,Langford supposedly was not anxious to meet Jack Dillon when Dillon was a middleweight,and much feared. You doubt the veracity of that statement. Fine,it might be hyperbole written 80 or so years ago,
but so many great boxing minds as Teddy Hayes, Jim Corbett and Nat Fleischer ,[who had him #2 LH] held him in such high esteem. I am not saying that Dillon 1912 or so would have beaten Langford 160-5 lbs, but
he certainly might have...
Langford at that time was growing into a heavier weight than Dillon, and Langford started to take on the big boys. Sometimes where there's smoke there is fire in the opinions I cited. Be as it may, the 1912-14 edition of Jack Dillon was a handful for anyone his weight, including the esteemed Sam Langford...