The sense of Ali v Holmes (1980)

Ali was already being touted by many as the Greatest heavyweight in history, his regaining the title for a third time (first person ever to do so) just seemed to reinforce that idea.

And I must mention that I remember that fight, was about 13 when it happened, and in the pre fight craziness Ali didn't seem exactly deficient to me. He was pretty much the norm, pooping all over Larry (this was one of those rare times I thought Ali was being unfair and wasn't impressed with his hoopla).

I do think there might have been a more thorough and honest appraisal of his health, mentally and physically. However, he continued his spiel well into the fight, and to be honest I thought he was honestly beat...until the last rounds, where I got incensed with the ref for not stopping it. The last two or three rounds shouldn't have happened imo. I don't believe anyone would have vehemently complained if the fight had ended in the 9th.

Do I believe the fight shouldn't have happened? Well, Ali sure didn't seem to think that. I just pray that greed didn't take over his handlers and force their hand as far as putting a spent and ill fighter in with the third greatest heavyweight in his prime.

 

It was strictly for the money Ali was almost broke at that point and got another Divorce shortly after the fight so lost more money. To make matters worse King shorted Ali 2 million of his 8 million purse. To make it ‘right’ King sent a briefcase filled with I think $100k in cash and a non disclosure agreement to sign if Ali took the $100k King was paid up. Ali took the money. This was all described in Jack Newfield’s book on King. It was a tactic King used his whole career. If he owed someone ‘X’ he would send a far less amount in cash knowing that most boxers are too dumb to do the actual math.

 

The odds on the fight were very close at the time of the bout. And lots of folks were going with Ali in the upset--figured he'd rise to the occasion one last time. But the fight was not looked at as a mismatch at the time.

 

Don't forget Ali's thyroid medicine. He looked more trim in the build-up.

It would take his masterful effort against Berbick to display his true remaining abilities and a deep gas tank that could have carried him well into the 80's and likely 90's as a top ten attraction in the division.

 

It is don.
He used something like this also with Holmes when had " reanimated " Holmes old version to place him in the ring vs Tyson in 1988 th.

There are things called eras in boxing. Ali era started when he won vs Liston and Patterson. Ended with fight vs Holmes.
Now there was necessity to start new " era " and vuala, Holmes had been " reanimated " in 1988 th and fights vs Tyson.

 

Guy was just full of himself, couldn't stand to see the spotlight and the accolades going to anyone else.

 

Ali was not diagnosed with Parkinson’s until 1984, three years after he retired from boxing.

Before the Holmes fight he went to the Mayo Clinic — arguably the finest medical facility in the world — and was found to have some deficiencies but the neurologist who conducted the tests concluded there wasn’t sufficient reason to medically disqualify him from fighting. The Nevada commission accepted the findings.

Unfortunately there is no test for Parkinson’s, then or now. It is a diagnosed through symptoms and I’ll accept that a neurologist at the Mayo Clinic was competent to observe those symptoms and make a diagnosis after a battery of tests had Ali displayed such symptoms to a degree that would have led to such diagnosis at the time. The fact is nobody has ever been diagnosed with Parkinson’s the minute it appears — we don’t even know with a great degree of certainty what causes it or how long someone has it before such symptoms are evidence. That’s medical fact.

We know this: to get his weight down to 217 1/2 — his lightest since the Foreman fight — Ali took thyroid pills that a doctor gave him. That regimen was not monitored as it should have and Ali made the mistake of treating them as diet pills — if one is good, two is better and four is four times as good kind of thinking. He gobbled them and nobody kept count as they should have. (I’ll just say that had Ferdie Pacheco, Ali’s longtime physician, not abandoned him he could have put a stop to that nonsense. Some hail Pacheco as a hero for walking away from his patient but he could have done Ali some good even if he didn’t agree with him continuing to fight.) Those pills caused Ali to 1) lose muscle mass as well as fat and 2) to completely dehydrate … you’ll notice he did not sweat in the fight.

When this became public, the accepted narrative was that the pills caused him to look in great shape but have nothing in the ring. And that might well be true. Larry would have beaten the Ali who fought Berbick (later, at a heavier weight) but Ali would have at least have had a more to protect himself and fight back with. Maybe the beating wouldn’t have been as bad. Who knows?

You will not find one contemporary source suggesting that Ali had Parkinson’s at the time. (That doesn’t mean he didn’t, but what the current narrative accepts is that it was obvious to everyone that he had Parkinson’s and that just ain’t true.) Was he diminished? Yes. Was he considered a walking corpse? No, just a past-it fighter — but maybe not shot because people accepted the thyroid pils explanation.

If anyone should have been able to recognize the symptoms and declare that Ali was in early-stage Parkinson’s, it would have been Pacheco. Probably no fighter in history had a doctor by his side so long monitoring his condition and having the day-to-day awareness of what was going on. And AT THE TIME, what Pacheco said was that he was worried about Ali’s kidneys. He also, very publicly, accepted the Mayo Clinic’s findings (although still saying he thought that Ali shouldn’t fight anymore). He DID NOT ever say at that time or at any point around that time that he thought Ali had Parkinson’s.

The current narrative was set by a 2017 study published in a medical journal that said (more than 30 years after the fact) that symptoms of Parkinson’s could be observed by studying film of Ali (particularly his speech) dating back to his still-active fighting days.

That may well be true. It’s also confirmation bias (we already knew by the time of this study that he had Parkinson’s, so looking for it knowing what you’re looking for can lead to finding what you’re looking for) and looking at it through a 2017 lens, at which point we knew more about the role that brain trauma can play in Parkinson’s and we have more exacting ideas about exactly what to look for in a person who may have Parkinson’s to make such a diagnosis.

Because the study had Ali’s name on it (they studied a famous case), it made headlines when it was released. And this narrative built that ‘everybody knew he had Parkinson’s, it was obvious’ when that was not the case at the time given medical practice and knowledge.

That doesn’t make it less sad. That doesn’t mean he should have fought on as long as he did. But, again, you will not find one word from anyone before the Holmes (or for that matter the Berbick) fight saying Ali had Parkinson’s or suggesting such. Did people want to make money off another big Ali fight? Yes. Did they know that he had Parkinson’s? No.

Why did he fight? Ali needed money. And he craved the limelight. Simple as that.

 

I agree St. Pat. Most of of us know we are not the physical specimens of our late 20's and 30's. We cannot hit the high fastball [ softball is better}, our jump short is short, and forget the bench reps at 225. Soooo many boxers and i imagine all athletes believe that experience prevails . In most cases it does not. { Golf} Ali sparred many a round in the early 70s with Holmes. He knew ---and backed by Holmes-----he got the better of him. Circa 1973- 74. However , how the heck did he think he had a chance? Ali went thru wars from 74-78. Took far too many hits against some rough men. Norton, Frazier, Foreman, Spinks, Shavers. He was declining. Everyone saw it and Holmes steadfastly built his craft. He had no business in that fight. He looked physically fit but as Holmes said.." the fight was over when I saw him react to my first jab" Egomaniac, and a need for more money. A national commision, and and a financial class like they do ine NFl might help. But that is a story for another day. To summarize ,,, I was young and Ali had just beaten Norton at Yankee stadium. I asked my father how the fight went. Never one to say a bad word he replied, " I hope Ali retires, he was great. Time catches all of us" 1976. Four years later he fights a young determined Holmes....Money

 

Very true, his Thyroid was part of what was to come relating to his illness. Muhammad Ali's medication contributed to excessive weight gain for him, it harmed his legendary stamina, he looked bloated.

 

While I have all the respect in the world for Muhammad Ali, his ill fated return was pure egotistical. A man who won his first title at age 22 in 1964, defeating the most dangerous fighter, Sonny Liston despite alleged underworld ties to the both bouts. Then over 10 years after winning his first title, faces a modern version of Liston, in George Foreman in 1974, even without his natural gifts, footwork, reflexes, speed, and stamina, to dance non stop for 15 rounds if need be. Ali had to use a different type of strategy to defeat a monster hitter like Foreman. In 1978 at the twilight of his career, out of shape, completely void of any skills, loses to Leon Spinks, a fellow Olympian with very limited pro experience. Ali regains his WBA title in a much anticipated bout, only shadowed by Larry Holmes 15 round decision decision over WBC Champion Ken Norton to win the title. Many times a fighter does not know when to walk away, letting their ego to get the best of him. Don King saw this opportunity, making the most of it, not caring about Ali's declining health. In a sense, Ali in real life portrayed a true life Mountain Rivera, played by Anthony Quinn, in 1962's Requiem For A Heavyweight, in which Cassius Clay(Muhammad Ali) humiliates and knocks out Rivera.

 

Perfect, well-thought post - thank you!

 

Much as I love Ali, it's about the money, and ego.
Not only that, someone with as much ego as Muhammed, would probably have thought he could actually match Holmes.
Ali hadn't lost that much remember before meeting Holmes, only 3 times.
And all avenged.
He may well have thought he could beat Larry.

 

I will say this; without 40+ years of hindsight: It was a huge fight, and this young TBooze only saw an Ali win, and even my Dad, who knew a bit about boxing, figured there was another miracle in Ali; and he was not alone, hence the odds!