The Six Reasons Why I Dislike Heavyweight Boxing

I always have to cede the history arguments to you Swarmer, hahaha. :good

I meant it more in recent memory when boxing became more international. Lighter weights, on the whole, have been dominated by Hispanics and Asians. That isn't to say that there haven't been any great "small men" in boxing from America.

 

it's strange that america has such crappy current representation at the lower weights. you'd think boxing would be a great pick for smaller peeps not able to play sports for big people.....

hopefully gary russell jr can eventually get a title at fw :thumbsup

 

LOL, you know absolutely NOTHING about boxing.

In fact, I'd go so far as to place you squarely in the group who easily won my poll regarding the group who has no boxers and has the least talent of us all. :yep

All of the boxers you named would easily wipe the floor with either Klit girl, and in fact, those steroid monsters couldn't even carry Tyson, Ali, or even Gerry Coney's jock strap. :good

 

Some reasons why I think the Heavyweight division is not as enjoyable as it used to be.

1. Two of the top fighters in the division are brothers, meaning they would never fight, but when Vitali retired the division got even shitter that leads to the next point.

2. The lack of depth.

3. The top heavyweights being fatshits, its understandable if a 40 year old is a little out of shape but
- Chris Arreola age 28

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- Samuel Peter age 27

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3. Too many belts, thats a problem not with the heavyweight division but boxing as a whole.

4. Back in the day, smaller Heavyweights like Evander, Tyson, Frazier, Marciano, Dempsy fought to take the opponents head off. Now smaller heavyweights dont do that, instead just get jabbed in the face for 12 rounds straight by a much bigger man.

 

Did someone say Valuev was in shape?
:rofl:

 

See, the type of guy that uses emoticons and "LOL" and attempts to discredit everything about a person rather than the point they made is the type for me that doesn't really have a point.

You want to know about my boxing experience? I've been in the ring with a couple of future world champions back in the amateur days. I don't need to brag about that, because it's evident from the way I make my points that I don't need to justify why I make them, they're sound and they point out actual attributes around a boxer.

Wladimir couldn't carry Tyson yet Douglas and Lewis can knock him out? Riiiight.

 

Another "quality" post.

In all examples except Marciano and Dempsey, I can point you to those boxers getting beaten in their prime by taller, skillful boxers.

Take a look at David Tua and his ability to rip apart taller fighters until he fought Lennox Lewis, a guy who used his reach well, had solid boxing skills, was in shape and didn't just attempt to power his way to victory.

That's the difference, smaller heavyweights can't work their way in against bigger heavyweights if the bigger heavyweights have similar skillsets. For the first time ever, you've got fighters above 6'5 who not only have that height, but are also supremely conditioned, agile and not hindered by the usual problems with the size because training methods have continued to grow better and people know how to develop explosiveness now, even if it isn't a natural feature.

So, you're talking about fighters who fought guys who were at most, 3-4 inches taller than them. Yet, Klitschko is 8-10 inches taller than Frasier. Let's see him deal with that when Klitshcko also possesses a sharp jab, power in both hands, good foot work and good stamina.

 

I believe part of the reason that size has become such a factor in HW boxing is the overall decline in quality of infighting. It's a lost art. The shorter guys simply lack the skillset to work their way in. When was the last time we saw a legitimately good inside fighter at HW? With consistent body punching? Tyson and Holyfield.... Tua was good but not great. Povetkin and Haye excel in some areas of this style but are incomplete.

This is why the Klitschkos continue to dominate. There is no stylistic kryptonite to shatter their invincibility. They successfully use their 1's, their 2's, and occasional 3 three to turn the faces of uninspiring contenders into mush, over and over and over again. They don't even need to throw combos or use uppers to dispose of most of these guys. kinda sad really.

 

See, I hate to say it but I just see this as revised history. The idea against Mohammad Ali was that if you got on the inside, you had your best chance against him - how many fighters actually managed to get on the inside when he was in his prime and controlling things with that lightning jab?

The fighters that beat him near his prime either had great timing (Frasier) or were similar in size and could fight fire with fire on the outside (Norton)

No fighter really beat Ali in his prime by busting him up on the inside, evading his jab and taking away his body.

Now, you can point at freakish examples like Mike Tyson as a guy who through lightning speed, head movement and explosiveness was able to get on the inside of taller fighters but looking at his problems through the years, they all came against fighters that were quite a bit taller than him who had durability and most importantly, didn't buy into intimidation but then you have to recall, Mike Tyson gets the ranking he gets because people perceive he's the only one ever to do what he did as well as he did.

Yet, even Mike Tyson had big time struggles against Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield had his fair share of issues against Lewis too. Funny that? The quality of the taller fighter impacting on how well a smaller fighter can get on the inside?

I can point at Roy Jones Jr in recent history fighting the much bigger Ruiz and using movement to get on the inside, bang to the body and go upstairs, but Ruiz wasn't exactly the type of boxer Lennox Lewis was, was he? Why did Jones Jr not face Lennox Lewis? Something to do with that big jab, ability to keep the distance and boxing skillset Lennox had perhaps?

The old age addage of "A good big fighter will always beat a great small fighter" comes into play... but in the case of Wladimir, you're talking a great fighter.

A guy that has functional defense, can hook off both hands, has a great jab, a great straight right hand, very decent footwork (very rarely ever seems off balance) and world class stopping power.... in amongst all that height.

Imagine if Valuev had similar skill and conditioning to Wladimir Klitschko, would anyone beat him?

 

I agree. The way for the short guys to beat either brother is not to sit on the end of their range and get their face slowly beaten in with jabs and right hands - but to get in and really work the body.

I still think Tua could have beaten Lewis that way (if he hadn't turned into a lazy ******* under Barry), and still think that's the way to beat either brother. Both don't really seem to like being hit to the body (Tony Thomson did it about 2 times v Wlad, and both times Wlad backpeddled madly to the ropes) - but nobody does it.

 

So, Wlad got hit twice on the body in an entire fight, back peddled both times and didn't get hit more than twice?

Wouldn't you say that just maybe, he's resetting the distance, getting himself away from the danger and making the guy work in again, making it hard for him to consistently have success doing it?

Again, this is taking the idea that "People are just that bad" rather than "People are just that good"

 

You make a good point. But getting into the brothers bodies is going to be more successful than the last few guys tactics of "stay at end of jabs and 1-2's. Slowly get beaten down and stopped late without firing anything back."

Jesus, even if somebody tried Michael Grants tactics against Lewis, it would be better. Grant probably knew he'd lose over the distance, so whacked Lewis as hard as he could, as early as he could, hoping to catch him cold. Didn't work, but it was his only shot. I don't even see guys taking a chance these days.

 

In regard to Ali, well, he is the utmost physical talent of an outboxer. It's really a credit to frazier's infighting and skills that he was actually able to get in there, making ali miss more jabs than he had with any other fighter, and bust him up as well as he did in all 3 fights.

As for Tyson's issues with tall giant fighters... He fought a lot of those guys outside of his physical and stylistic prime. His head movement was slower. He became more of a slugger. His step in became slower. Swarming is a young man's game, and losing time in prison doesn't help that eventual decline. Evander wasn't exactly the same in either fight as well. RJJ didn't necessarily swarm Ruiz. He employed a lot of tactics that a by the book infighter might have used, but it's not really the same thing. He still fought that fight like Jones, feinting and drawing his way in and counterpunching to victory.

I'm not denying that either Klits are stellar at fighting tall or that they're great fighters in their own right, wladimir especially has upped his game defensively and I think is now ATG top 20 material. But if there ever was a shorter, skilled, powerful swarming Dempsey, Marciano, Tyson, Frazier, Patterson, I think we would see Wlad fall, his chin isn't exactly as great as his brother's.

Exactly, where's the guts? Where's the challenger mentality? All the heavies out there right now either freeze up like deers in headlights and underperform or are too afraid to even sign. It sucks. even more so because wlad and vitali will never, ever unify.

 

You need to read the entire thread. Do you think anyone actually has the tactic of "I'm going to stay on the end of his jabs and one twos."

****, take Tua into account - the guy tried to go to the body, everytime he swayed in, that's where he ate the big hand. He got so frustrated that he started jumping and lunging at Lewis, only to get hit with a left jab.

You can catch a fighter like Lewis because he often went into fights arrogant, held his chin up and didn't stick to a gameplan.

Look at Wlad, he's a boring mother ****er solely cause he never gives an inch and sticks to his gameplan.

That's the difference. Lewis when he needed to be was superbly intelligent in the ring. Wladimir is, regardless of whether he needs to be.