The skilled super heavyweights champions. A theory

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Nov 28, 2022.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    My theory is that if the larger man is skilled, he seldom loses on points to the smaller in his prime. The smaller guy might win, but the chances of it are via knockout in the past 30 years in, and in most cases, that upset happens if he lands his best stuff first. The have been no cases of miracle come from behind KO's against them.

    Take a look at the skilled super heavyweights since Bowe, Lewis, Klitschko, Klitschko, and Fury. (1991-2022 ) Add up all their fights ( 200+ ) and you get one decision loss in their prime, and that one was a razor-thin decision to another all time great who is 1-4 against them. That's it. So it's silly to pick the much smaller man on points, I say. Sure Lewis and Wlad were upset by big punchers. That is not my point. This is the theory and it backed by 30 years research.

    For those interested, check out my top 15 heavyweight prospects, which I update quarterly. They all are pretty much all 6'4" big guys 230+ pounds who can hit. Some can really fight. The game is changing. You just don't see any sub 210 pounds, 6'1" to under or with a reach less than 75" anymore. There are none ranked today in ring magazine's top ten. And there had not been a man of these dimensions in years. The small guys aren't very skilled theory just doest wash anymore. It has been 30 years.

    Unless the smaller man has a very good chin, and very good power, with the right style, ( and he lands his best stuff first ) he's likely a loser in fantasy fights and history shows he is likely a loser in the past 30 years.

    Fans of the old-time heavies ( me ) have to admit this...if they are honest. These days, ranked heavyweights are 2-3 divisions north of where they used to be and much more skilled and athletic in the past 50-120 years compared to past big men.

    Before anyone says what about Usyk, he no small man! He stands 6'3" and weighs 220 pounds with a 78" reach. He match up He is also a slick southpaw. Find another one like him. This is not to say a semi skilled big guy like McCline or Valuev wouldn't drop a decision. They can and do. But they are not what I call super heavyweight with a lot of skill. They are semi skilled big men at best not virtually bullet proof to decision losses vs smaller 200-215 pound men.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
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  2. joebojoejoeson

    joebojoejoeson Member banned Full Member

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    The moment anybody use the term super heavyweight you know they are a casual boxing fan and the moment a person says Tyson Fury is skilled you know they don't know a thing about boxing.

    Second The current heavyweight champion is Usyk 6'2 and naturally weighs 200 pounds. The fact you claims he is 220 pounds when he spent most of his career weighing 200 pounds pretty much proves my point that you have zero clue about boxing. Andy Ruiz is 6'0 and was heavyweight champion recently, Alexander Povetkin is 6'1 and was heavyweight champion recently. Do you even watch boxing Mendoza? Clearly that question is rhetorical because clearly you don't either watch boxing or just don't know anything about boxing.

    There were tons of 6'5 230-240 pound plus heavyweights since the 1970's and I never heard anybody call them "Super" heavyweights. It is also funny how you pick various taller fighters to try to prove your narrative. Wladimir still lost he was knocked out 3 times in his prime so there was need to beat him by decision. Lewis was knocked out twice by 1 punch so these fighters didn't have to beat him by decision. Tyson Fury best two wins came against a washed up Wlad and a unskilled Wilder.

    That being said Wilder is a tall man but he is a light man. His natural weigh is between 207 and 214 pounds. Which means the only heavyweight champions in the last 50 years who were naturally lighter than he was maybe Joe Frazier and Evander Holyfield who started his career as a cruiser weight. Yet Wilder was heavyweight champion for years and is considered the hardest punching current heavyweight so clearly being really heavy doesn't really equate to anything. Even guys like Tyson Fury who comes into the ring heavy. That isn't his natural weight. I would say Fury in shape is probably between 230 and 240. He is just out of shape most of the time. Wladimir Klistchko actually turned pro weighing 220 pounds before he put on weight.

    Finally most heavyweight champions since 1970 have been around 6'3 plus. The only heavyweight champions who were shorter were Joe Frazier and Mike Tyson. The main difference was fighters up until maybe the early 2000's were in shape.

    Mendoza you are clearly one of the worst and most clueless person who post on this forum and that is saying something.
     
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  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Wrong on several levels. First off Usyk isn't 6'2' he's is 6'3" and he's not 200 pounds but 220. Nice try . Give a guess at his reach while your at it.

    Secondly I never said Wilder or Joshua is a skilled super heavy so you can stop right there. Better stated with the break down:

    1. Skilled very skilled super heavies ...Bowe, Lewis, Wlad , Vitali and for now although his career isn't finished Fury. They typically all have a top jab, great reach, and great size.

    2. The good super heavies...men like Joshua

    3. The semi skilled super heavies. Men such as Valuev and Mccline. Lump Wilder in the mix as he can be outboxed and drops many rounds to mediocre competition.

    4. The unliked goons. No need to mention who they are.

    Third yes there were big men in the past, none of which were skilled super heavies. Guys like you like to mention them.

    Forth wrong again. The were shorter champions than Frazier, ever hear of Marciano?

    Do I really need to pick more apart? I think not. Anybody can be knocked out. Aside form that point, your " attempt" to show me wrong with facts has failed. I try to keep it clean and let the boxing rule. No worries here I'm not here to troll anybody and don't really remember you anyway.
     
  4. joebojoejoeson

    joebojoejoeson Member banned Full Member

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    Usyk was measured barefooted at 6'2 or slightly over. The fact that you don't realize boxers heights are inflated now shows you don't know anything about boxing. You probably assume Tyson Fury is 6'9 when he was measured at 6'7. Also Usyk spent most of his career weighing under 200 pounds. You are picking his highest weight to fit your agenda. That is like saying Michael Moorer was a 250 pound guy because he weighed that weight at his highest.

    Lol Rocky Marciano wasn't a modern sized heavyweight. By modern standards he was a cruiser weight. Yeah I am going to make a few more points then I am blocking you. As I said you are the worst poster in this forum.

    Al Jones was 6'5/6'6 and far more skilled than Tyson Fury and Riddick Bowe, Roy "Tiger" Williams who was 6'5 and 230 plus was more skilled, Leroy Jones was 6'5 250 and was extremely skilled for his sized. He looked bad against Larry Holmes because of how good Larry Holmes was. Hell even guys like Gerry Cooney who was around 6'5 230 plus pounds was more skilled than Fury, Bowe, or maybe even Wlad. Cooney was unlucky enough to fight Holmes at his peak and then get strung out on drugs.

    Any heavyweight can't be dropped. Which is why some guys like Oliver McCall were never dropped. Various other heavyweight champions were dropped but they were smashed by guys like Corrie Sanders, Ross Purrity and Lamon Brewster like a prime Wlad was. Tons of heavyweights champions were down but I can't think of many heavyweight champions who were knocked out twice by 1 punch like Lennox Lewis and who never got back to their feet to win a bout. Numerous heavyweight champions were knocked down but not by 180 pound blow up cruiser weights like Steve Cunnigham who can't punch like Tyson Fury has and on that note begone troll.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    So Rocky wasn't a modern sized heavyweight, but Joe Fraizer is?

    McCall can be dropped? Watch his fight with Bruce Seldon in round nine if your dare. Who else besides McCall has never been dropped at heavyweight? Wanna guess.?

    I agree with you on Fury and yes several champions were knockdown and knocked out below what Cunningham weighted vs Fury! Do I really need to list them?

    But my favorite reply of your is Al Jones who beat who and when, that monster was better than Fury or Bowe !

    You just cant make this stuff up, someone wiser than I will have to reply.

    Please place me on ignore whoever you are and begone with your numerous falsehoods.
     
  6. Skins

    Skins Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No need for the insults
     
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  7. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Bob N Weave Full Member

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    Bulldoza your posts are ripe with the smell of Doritos.
     
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  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I like Doritos! Thanks for adding to my thread.
     
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  9. aerows123

    aerows123 New Member banned Full Member

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    No way I just read someone say Gerry Cooney was more skilled than Fury or Bowe or Wlad. Get the ffff outta here man you don't know jack **** about boxing. You. Don't. Know. Jack. ****. About. Boxing. Al Jones more skilled than Fury and Bowe? Roy Williams more skilled? Leroy Jones? Bruh delete you f account man holy sheesh are people in this forum totatly deluded.

    Also, Usyk is the same dimensions as George Foreman who was considered a decently big heavyweight in the Ali days. Says enough right there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2022
  10. joebojoejoeson

    joebojoejoeson Member banned Full Member

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    Wladimir was not more skilled than Cooney. Wladimir had a better career and you know why? Because after Cooney lost to Holmes he got strung out on drugs and alcohol. After Wladimir got beat stupid by low level Ross Purrity, Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster Wlad changed his style to throw a few punches and grab to hold on. Also Wlad for the most part for really horrible opposition doing his title reign. If you think Fury throwing slapping arm punches while running from a old Wlad is skilled then you earned yourself a trip to the block club. Bye bye.
     
  11. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    “I’m going to make another few points, before blocking you”

    Ha!

    What’s the count on the current block list?

    What will it be at before the end of the year?

    Ha!

    What a lunatic you are.
     
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  12. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    And another one gone, another one gone, another one bites the dust!

    Haha!

    I’m not gonna lie.

    You’re my new favourite poster.

    How many’s on the block list now??

    You’re going to have to slow down with these blocks man.

    Otherwise, you’re going to be posting threads and then answering them yourself.
     
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  13. aerows123

    aerows123 New Member banned Full Member

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    All those losses Wlad had were similr to Lennox losing to two total bums McCall and Rahman. Does that mean Lennox is a low skilled fighter or? Moron. Watch the Wlad vs Mercer fight to see young Wlad was so much more skilled than Gerry, but Wlad changed his style because he had a poor chin. His losses to bums were due to his chin not his skills you moron
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I would say that you are 80% right.

    This broadly holds true, but the smaller man still has a vote in the fight.
     
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  15. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm glad he got banned every post i see him make was insulting someone or threatening to block someone, i had one interaction with him and he called me "kid". I didn't bother interacting with him after that as i knew he would be banned sooner or later.
     
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