The Super middleweight division is looking at its weakest in years

pasky2000 · Nov 7, 2010

watcher said: ↑

I wouldn't readily put money against Beyer, either. Didn't he beat Danny Green?
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Have you watched the Green fights ? Especially the 1st one when Green could still make weight properly ?

JUST PLEASE TELL ME...DO YOU PREFER THE TOP 10 OF ANOTHER YEAR SINCE 2000 OVER TODAY'S TOP 10 ? (POST #95)

That's the point I was making from the very start...personally giving today's top 10 the edge over any other since 2000.

That answer will settle our conversations once and for all.

I will not insult you if you decide on another year :good

pasky2000 · Nov 7, 2010

Swollen Liver said: ↑

and....guys....Bika is underated I think. He's a LOT better than some people may think. Not a lot of exposure even if he made Calzaghe look really bad. Bika won the first 3 rounds against Bute before getting dominated. I'm sure he will give some problems to Ward.
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I agree. Ward better be well prepared and bring his A game too.

Swollen Liver · Nov 7, 2010

hahahhahaha. Remember that time when Scott Pemberton was called a serious contender
MUCH more talent today. that's 100% sure.

D Berns · Nov 7, 2010

bailey said: ↑

The Super Middleweight division is looking its weakest in years. Many dont realise this because they are fooled by the advertising of the Super 6 tournament, which gives the division fantastic exposure, but the division itself is arguably at one of its all time lows.

A Ward - Is now not looking as great as many believe. His only win is over an already beaten Kessler who was suffering double vision. With illegal headbutts ending the fight early.

L Bute - Isnt fighting anyone as a champion, who hasnt already been exposed, though neither is Ward to be fair.

Both these champs are feasting on already exposed and beaten fighters, and due to the state of the division, there dosent seem great challengers coming through like there always has been in recent years.

The other top SMWs are mostly already beaten fighters.

We have been spoilt in the Super middleweight division for years with excellent fighters.

The Super 6 is now at a low to how it started. Pre tournament favourite
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had already been beaten by Calzaghe, and Kessler in suffering double vision is now out of the tournament.

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has been beaten by an unwell Kessler.

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has been beaten by Froch and is out of the tournament.

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has been beaten by Dirrell

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has been beaten by Ward, Miranda and now 14 losses 2 draws Johnson

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has already been beaten many times and wasnt even a force at SMW in previous years, but now with how the division has dipped, he has become a contender atsch. He was clearly beaten years ago by Branco and Ottke.

That leaves
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and
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dirrel beat froch and got robbed first of all.

second frotch won alot of home town victories and he takes advantage of dirty tactics.

i hate froch.

MichiganWarrior · Nov 7, 2010

Andre Ward and Andre Dirrell would have been doing the same thing in last era of middleweights as this era.

Exposing a bunch of inferior athletes, and 1 dimensional Eurobums with no skill nor ability. Only Calzaghe would actually stand a chance. But he'd never leave shitville Britain to fight.

pasky2000 · Nov 7, 2010

watcher said: ↑

i wouldn't readily put money against beyer, either. Didn't he beat danny green?
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Please tell me...do you prefer the top 10 of another year since 2000 over today's top 10 ? (post #95) If so which year ?

Marnoff · Nov 7, 2010

Terrible thread. The Super Middleweight Division is in GREAT shape. Ward goes in competitive with any 168lbs in history. Froch is a tough guy, so is Abraham. Dirrell causes problems for a lot of fighters as well. The list goes on. It's a very deep division when you consider the breadth of good fighters.

Imperial1 · Nov 7, 2010

If it were not that deep how could they even have this tournament ?

Can't imagine too many divisions with this many stars with such talent at the same time ..

pasky2000 · Nov 7, 2010

Imperial1 said: ↑

If it were not that deep how could they even have this tournament ?

Can't imagine too many divisions with this many stars with such talent at the same time ..
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But Manny Siaca & Markus Beyer & Dingaan Thobela & Glenn Catley.....have accomplished so much more.

I win again...it's irrefutable pawning !! :nut

Good night I'm out ! :good

Dracon · Nov 7, 2010

D Berns said: ↑

dirrel beat froch and got robbed first of all.

second frotch won alot of home town victories and he takes advantage of dirty tactics.

i hate froch.
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:huhAlot of home town victories? Name one controversial decision he won in Britain other than the Dirrel fight, please.

Dracon · Nov 7, 2010

MichiganWarrior said: ↑

Andre Ward and Andre Dirrell would have been doing the same thing in last era of middleweights as this era.

Exposing a bunch of inferior athletes, and 1 dimensional Eurobums with no skill nor ability. Only Calzaghe would actually stand a chance. But
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.
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And you once again prove how ****** you are. Calzaghe left the UK to fight RJJ and Hopkins, and in the latter, the 3 judges were American. That takes some balls.:hi:

bailey · Nov 8, 2010

Imperial1 said: ↑

You act like Joe just dominated everyone ..He had a close fight with Kessler so all this left over crap is irrelavant !

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I said forget Joe. Calzaghes winning run really gets to you .
Wake up though. He DID dominate the division

And Beyer are you kidding Froch spanks that ass !And Ottke would get schooled by any of them that cat had no power !
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D Green is a bigger puncher than Froch and was one of the best SMWs in the world at the time (now a world rated CW who has carried his power up) and Beyer put on a boxing lesson and beat him, so yes unless you havent seen Beyer you would realise that Froch who has only won 3 world title fights compared to Beyer who had won over 10 (forget how many exactly), and against better opposition would not be a gimme for Froch at all atsch. Knowing how Froch has been outboxed before and how good a mover and boxer Beyer was, I think it is you who is reaching

Your really reaching with him..And you ever heard of styles make fights ..Didn't Jermain Taylor beat Hopkins who schooled Pavlik who lost to Taylor ? You sure you wanna go there ??

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Failing to tell the complete facts in your typical bias way. You dont point out that Pavlik fought Hopkins at a higher weight than he had ever fought before, whilst Hopkins was an established LHW & Pavlik MW champ. Dont miss out the facts now

And what happened in the Bute Andrade rematch let me know then get back to me

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I know what happend in the rematch, but does that mean the first fight didnt happen then? Of course not. The facts are Bute was painfully close to a KO loss to Andrade, and that is a fact :deal
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Azzer85 · Nov 8, 2010

Just as i figured, a thread indirectly talking about Calzaghes 'greatness'

bailey · Nov 8, 2010

pasky2000 said: ↑

His reasoning is quite simple minded and talent is irrelevant or minor at best in his world. If we continue applying his distorted logic then we must say that :

Ward, Bute, Dirrell, Kessler, Abraham & Froch would all lose if they face :

" Robin Reid - Jeff Lacy - Markus Beyer - Charles Brewer - Richie Woodhall - Glenn Catley - Dingaan Thobela - Manny Siaca - Thomas Tate, etc. "
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I proved to you how these guys resumes werent great and how G Johnson couldnt compete at the previous level but is now a S6 fighter, and you cant except that atsch

bailey · Nov 8, 2010

Taranazan said: ↑

Bute beat Bika more impressively than Calzaghe, and Bute was at his first fight against a world class opponent. And you have an odd conception of what a leftover is. Because you lost a fight doesn't make you a leftover. If it was the case, why would there be rematches, since the loser of the first fight would've become a leftover?

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Read the post below, that answers your poor mans quote

exemple of a poor argument: "so I couldnt see Froch beating Beyer, who would be careful of Frochs power and clearly out box him"

1- Beyer got his title against Lucas. If you ever watched the fight, you know it was a robbery (and a big one), which means that Eric Lucas, who wasn't a skilled guy at all, outboxed Beyer.

2- Your argument is just an opinion. "I think Beyer would outbox Froch". That doesn't mean anything. I could argue "I think Froch KTFO Beyer".

The simple fact that you try to "prove" that one era was better than the other is laughable, especially since you compare one era's whole career to the current era, whose career isn,t over. Of course, a guy with 40-50 fights is more likely to have a better resume than a 27 year old guy with 22 fights. Wait 10 years, then compare them on their whole career.

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I said forget Calzaghe as it was an unfair example. If your not going to read the posts, dont waste my time repeating to previously answered questions.

Thing is you have tried to give a counter arguement which is lame, yet Ive called on Beyers excellent win over D Green as a good, give an idea type of fight

bailey said: ↑

Fighting leftovers dosent diminish a fighters standing at all, but it dosent give a true indication either, as the losing fighter already has known exposed holes in their game. The example you give of Bika is a good one as until Calzaghe beat him, there wasnt much knowledge of him, but after Joe beat him, you could see that its not wise to brawl and get rough with Bika by watching Calzaghes mistakes, but doing it first and beating these guys first clearly is what gives the real standing.
Calzaghe beat Jimenez in a boring fight years ago, when Jimenez was unknown. When Calzaghe beat him clearly and showed how it was done, B Magee fought Jimenez in his next fight to test his level with a game plan and looked as impressive in doing so. But as anyone knows Magee isnt at Calzaghes level and never will be. Thats what I mean by the real standing
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Read above and learn :deal
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