The super six toruney will go down in flames

Yea, american fighters always get gift decisions in Germany. atsch

 

So you did read the post?

 

Kalle Sauerland came up with this tournament. Showtime willing to show it. Sauerland makes a tournament where Abraham has to move up to 168 facing Kessler, Froch and Taylor. And you make accusations???

Actually who are you? Joining 2006 and 200 posts?????

 

Isn't it traditional to make excuses after the fight?

 

Why restrict this logic to Sauerland? It applies to Showtime in favor of their favourite sons and Di Bella just as much. Everyone has incentive to cheat for their fighter and dodginess happens from Texas to Tokyo.

I think Sauerland has some pull with the tourney (no way were AA and Kessler meeting in round 1, for example), but any dodgy decision will be a problem and would be in any tourney.

 

The tournament is competitive and is the direction that boxing needs but there will not be a return to the glory years as a result of this one event. Though the participants are known to boxing fans it involves virtual unknowns to the general sports fans of the world. If successful it could lead to a continuation and the momentum could lead to other similar events that could result in a higher profile for the sport.

 

Ramón made an excellent post (#51) - it's just a bit long to bother quoting. But read it.

My take is similar - some promoters, fighters and a tv network saw the financial sense in creating a tourney with 3 guranteed (as much as boxing will allow, anyway) high profile fights. If you win, you get more AND their hype potential is obvious, given what it took to get there.

That's what's so significant here. If it comes off well (a big if, admittedly), it shows a financially viable way of creating multiple top-level fights at once. That's HUGE.

Of course interested parties will all try to maximize their odds and some are more powerful than others. But saying this was built for 1 fighter's benefit is very misleading - it has it's way of working for all (as Ramón outlines).

 

Exactly - brilliant and why everybody agreed to anticipate.
Fighters, TV-networks and promoters could get along - only some boxing "fans" seems to ......................arrghh :-(

 

The problem is not so much with the tournament in itself. The problem is that it is illegitimately billed to casual fans as THE six best fighters at 168 lbs competing to find THE best 168 lbs fighter out there. The best 168 lbs fighter out there is Kessler. Were he to win, we'd all accept he was the best, but not because he beat the best of the rest, because he wouldn't have, in this tournament. How can a tournament with the six best 168 lbs not include Bute, Andrade and Bika? So, the first problem is that it doesn't include the six best, only two of the six best, Kessler and Froch.

The second problem is that the way the tournament is set up, it doesn't allow the division to be unified until 2012. But, this is what such tournaments should be all about - to make a Champion that had proved himself as the best in the division and one that has unified all the belts. Had this tournament not been set up, we MIGHT have had a unified IBF/WBA/WBC/WBO Champion as early as late 2010. There can only be one, but this tournament stands in the way of the belts being unified. This is the second problem.

Some fans also say: let's hope the Ring decides that the winner of Kessler v. Froch is The Ring Champ, assuming they both win their first fight. Why? Neither beat Bute, and Froch didn't beat Andrade, and it's far from certain that Froch would beat either. And if Andrade beats Bute, that doesn't mean Bute wasn't good. It means Andrade is even better than most people give him credit for. Whitewashing the tournament by making Kessler v. Froch a fight for The Ring Championship doesn't mean the Ring Champ would be undisputed, whatever you think of the merits of the Ring belt, particularly if Bute goes on to beat Andrade in the rematch.

In conclusion, whilst this tournament is indeed good for boxing, it's not as good in itself as it could and should have been given its billing and as some people make it out to be, because most of these fights would have happened anyway. Moreover, fans do have legitimate concerns over it. This tournament is much better for $howtime, for Di Be$$a, for $auerland and for the fighter$ concerned than it is for boxing and boxing fans and it's important to realise that.

 

Is this your first encounter with boxing promotion?

And Andrade and Bika don't have particularly obvious claims to be included, that's just your personal opinion. Neither have beaten anyone particularly impressive. The difference between them and Ward and Dirrell is that Ward and Dirrell are unknown quantities whereas Bika and Andrade have already been shown as not good enough to have a chance of winning this.

Nobody has managed to unify the SMW belts in 20 years so that's a hell of a 'might'.

No different to the situation in any other division with a vacancy for the Ring Championship. Adamek won the CW Ring belt without beating Jones, Fragomeni or Wlodarczyk. Wlad Klitschko won the HW Ring belt without beating Vitali. That's nothing to do with the tournament at all.

 

Don't get fresh with me, sonny. Can't handle what I write, take a deep breath and move on, ok?

Andrade and Bika are Top 6 fighters by almost everyone's ranking, not just my own. So they should have been included alongside Bute in the top 6 fighters' tournament. If you're going to include unproven fighters like Ward and Dirrell on the basis that they're not proven not to be good enough, then, hell, you could have had a Super Six that would have included only unbeaten prospects.

There's not been a 168 lbs unification in a long time but then there's not been a tournament at 168 lbs in a long time either. It is a hell of a missed opportunity in this case, given that there is a tournament.

And given that there is a tournament to find the best, a guy like Bute should definitely have been invited. And a guy like Andrade too. He's better than he was in the Kessler fight and even though he is probably not good enough to beat Kessler now, it doesn't mean he couldn't beat everyone else and make it into the final. So this tournament fails both in not including at least one fighter who has a respectable claim to being the best - Bute, and in also not including another fighter who has a respectable claim to be the best of the rest (after Kessler) - namely Andrade. Whether you wanted this tournament to provide a Top 5, 1 to 5, or whether you wanted it to find the undisputed best fighter at 168 lbs, this tournament does neither, and given that it could and should have done both, it is not an unmitigated success, nor does it do what it claims to do, whether you, personally, like it or not. That's all.

 

Ramón, no it's not perfect and the business of the sport has an obvious hand in how it's structured, but as far as marrying the business with delivery to the fans, it is a giant step forward. It could have been better, but reality just won't allow it. I'm a Bute fan, wish he was there, but see why he isn't - he can still come out of this fine (depending on Green's chicken act). He'll do fine fighting out of Montreal.

Prob: belt unification - who cares? WBO guy wouldn't play ball. A Froch/Kessler winner vs. Bute/Andrade winner is the best you could do & better anyway (and, as always, tough to make happen, but not impossible).

Prob: establishing linearity (or, slightly less, Ring Champ) - this is a real problem, but mostly due to the depth of the division. Could it have been done anyway? Would Kessler/Bute have done it? Kessler/Froch? A 4-man could do it, but who's your 4th? The WBO guy wouldn't participate. Andrade? Ward, maybe? But could it be organized? Linearity is a problem at SMW anyway cuz it's so deep; an 8 man could do it, but good luck on that. But, I agree, the tourney won't re-establish linearity (hell, you could beat the eventual winner in the round robbin and not make the quarters).

It's a compromise between business and fan interest, but a pretty good one. I still think it runs into trouble with injury or someone losing 2 fights and deciding it not wise to continue with a high level next fight. That would be the disaster as it would indicate pulling off such a tournament doesn't work in all the fighters' interests (and - how do you substitute at that point?).

 

Lol, first time on a 'discussion board' as well I see :rofl:rofl

If you're going to act all shocked because OMG someone is promoting their fighters as the best, then you deserve the **** ripped out of you. I mean what do you expect? A billboard saying "the third and seventh best fighters meet in the fight that everyone is just about willing to accept"?

 

If not this fight, it'll be another fight where someone is robbed. Its a part of boxing, but inspite I still watch the sport. I'm just excited about seeing the best fight the best because it almost never happens in boxing.

 

I disagree, sorry.

The WBO guy would play ball. This is not Balzsay we're talking about, and even Balzsay would have played ball. This is Stieglitz, who fought all over the world for his chance. He'd definitely have played ball.

I don't see this tournament as a step forward or as something special from the fights that get made point of view, because most of the fights would have happened anyway, as I showed in previous posts. Showtime did what was best for them, not for boxing, obviously, and I think they could have done better. Don't want to blame anyone, but if anyone should have grabbed the bull by its horns, it should have been HBO.

HBO should have had Froch v. Dirrell and Kessler v. Ward on one night, and Bute v. Andrade and Stieglitz v. Bika/Green on another night and then the two winners on each night facing each other, something like:

Kessler v. Froch and Bute/Andrade v. Stieglitz/Green

and then the two winners facing each other in the grand finale for the unified and undisputed Championship.

HBO had the money, the fighters and the promoters would have played ball and things could not have turned out better.

As I said, a hell of a missed opportunity. This is how I see it anyway.