The term super heavyweight with skills has no official guideline. Here's mine

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Dec 4, 2015.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol: none of this is true. Calm down, we disagree, that's all.

    Interesting that you bring up Frazier though; I would describe him as "more skilled" than Wladimir. IN a sense he is Wladimir's polar opposite, but because his outfighting is better than Wladimir's infighting, I'd have to go for him.

    Why would I say something that isn't true?
     
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2015
    #16
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Were Maywether or Whitaker good in-fighters? No! But many think they were highly ranked pound for pound champions...THEY WERE.

    Wlad has delivered some KO shots from mid-range by the way.
     
    Mendoza, Dec 4, 2015
    Mendoza, Dec 4, 2015
    #17
  3. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    He clinched his way to dominance and became unstuck horribly when that method of winning was taken away from him.
     
    dinovelvet, Dec 4, 2015
    dinovelvet, Dec 4, 2015
    #18
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I'm not saying that. I'm saying you don't know what you are talking about. Wlad had an all time jab, right cross and very good left hook. I'll debate that!

    This is three of the main four punches throw, and you think he's unskilled? Come on.

    If speed or athletism has something to do with Skill, Wlad scores high as well. Keep in mind. Wlad was so skilled he won the gold medal at age 20!

    I just found your in-fighting comment to be rather singular, as you said it without mentioned that many great boxers were not good in-fighters.
     
    Mendoza, Dec 4, 2015
    Mendoza, Dec 4, 2015
    #19
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Uh, yes Mendoza. They were among the most gifted in-fighting counterpunches in history. They let opponents literally crawl all over them while sliding and countering in the pocket...

    You can be highly ranked and pound for pound and unskilled, never mind just having gaps in your skillset.

    Yeah, I know that's why I made clear the difference between these two ranges for him. He was better at mid than infighting.
     
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2015
    #20
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Um, they did not in-fight. By the way, could they hook off the jab as Wlad used to? We are talking about heavies here, lower weight fighters often show more skills.


    Care to show me some? Your examples will be limited! Mine would be near 100!



    .

    Wlad opted not to in-flight. If clinching is a skill, Wlad, like Ali was great at it in terms of the ability to execute, and the strength to hold and maul his man. This by the way was considered an old time classic skill by many.
     
    Mendoza, Dec 4, 2015
    Mendoza, Dec 4, 2015
    #21
  7. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    I think it's just a case where different people use different terminology at times to rate fighters. I view that as being more complete or versatile.

    I think Wlad is technically skilled, but not versatile or complete.

    I think it was Larry Merchant who said in regards to Felix Trinidad "Tito may be one dimensional, but it's a hell of a dimension". Personally I don't think Tito was as one-dimensional or basic as people often say he was, but that's a different story.

    Wlad fits that "hell of a one dimension" thing, and does so by being technically skilled in certain areas.

    It's easy in theory to "use your height and reach", but obviously harder in real life to do it successfully against titlists and top contenders, but Wlad did it very well. He had a good sense of distance and how to maintain the distance he wanted, and that was in no small part to his technically skilled punches. Great jab, straight right, left hook. He could do damage with wider left hooks or shorten it up and do damage with quick left hooks which travel a short distance. His footwork was pretty good, knowing what positions to be in.
     
    Thread Stealer, Dec 4, 2015
    Thread Stealer, Dec 4, 2015
    #22
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Wladimir was one of the most skillful heavyweight boxers I've seen.
    The fact that he used a very limited set of tools just underlines how skillful he was.
     
    Unforgiven, Dec 4, 2015
    Unforgiven, Dec 4, 2015
    #23
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    A much better reply, but I think Wlad has more than one dimension. The jab, hook, and cross are three, and like you said he do damage short or at long range.
     
    Mendoza, Dec 4, 2015
    Mendoza, Dec 4, 2015
    #24
  10. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    Both Whitaker and Mayweather were very effective on the inside. Floyd definitely clinched too much on the inside later in his career for my liking, but he definitely showed he could fight up close, as well as long and mid range. Even in his toughest fight, the first Castillo one, the 11th round featured some excellent in-fighting from both fighters. A lost art nowadays.

    Whitaker, likewise, could fight at all ranges.
     
    Thread Stealer, Dec 4, 2015
    Thread Stealer, Dec 4, 2015
    #25
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I won't, it's all true.

    No; I know you're upset but i want you to grasp this. I'm not saying he's unskilled. I'm saying he isskilled.

    I'm saying there are large gaps in that skillset. And i'm saying a fighter who has large gaps in his skillset shouldn't be labelled an example of skill. I'll debate that.
     
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2015
    #26
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes, pretty much.

    As Mendoza says, there's no "official" definition of skilled superheavy, and his and mine differ is my point.
     
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2015
    #27
  13. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    No, they are tools. He has just 3 tools to his game.

    Dimension's are versatility , adaptability. Being able to fight on the inside and the outside. To switch from boxer to brawler.
    To box on the back foot and the front foot.

    Dimension's Wlad does not have.
     
    dinovelvet, Dec 4, 2015
    dinovelvet, Dec 4, 2015
    #28
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    For me SHW is a bit bigger than you describe.

    I think your talking about 6'5 types who weigh over 230 pounds.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 4, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 4, 2015
    #29
  15. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't think McGrain was saying Wlad is unskilled, quite the opposite. I think what he's saying is he has great skills within a limited range of options.
     
    Vanboxingfan, Dec 4, 2015
    Vanboxingfan, Dec 4, 2015
    #30
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