The three causes of Tyson's decline?...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Sting like a bean, Nov 2, 2017.


  1. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Perhaps there's a chance this question hasn't been posed in quite this way. Tyson was shot well before advancing age alone is at all likely to have been the primary cause. It stands to reason then (or so it seems to me) that the primary cause is some admixture of three basic factors:

    1) Eroding technical skills, whether as a result of lesser trainers, lesser training discipline, or both.

    2) Eroding physical attributes like hand speed, stamina, etc., almost certainly as a result (assuming his physical attributes did indeed prematurely decline) of lesser training discipline.

    3) Psychological instability

    Now obviously, these three factors can and probably did interact in complex feedback loops, but does any of these strike you as clearly more salient than the others, and if so, why?

    And yes, I'm assuming in arguendo that Tyson did indeed decline considerably after ~1989, but is there anyone prepared to argue that this is not actually the case and that he was simply exposed?
     
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  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The main cause for me was character.


    ps in arguendo,is that, for arguments sake?
     
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  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    He was 5'10 with average reach for his height.
    I don't think it's fair to say he was "exposed" but eventually one of those big guys was going to box a great fight and crack the code.
    I think people expected too much from him.
     
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  4. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    still being a boy in a mans world. wrong women, probably innocence, prison, would surely ruin you.

    Ironically if he'd just won the title a few years later when he had matured in his late twenties, he might well have had a longer career.
     
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  5. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Now when you say character, do you mean more that you think this impeded his performance directly, or indirectly by causing him to choose poorer trainers and neglect workouts?

    (You're correct about the meaning of "in arguendo".)
     
  6. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    lack of character, I would suggest. He was plainly immature.
     
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  7. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Any ideas as to why Douglas was the guy to crack it? That is, any reason to think Douglas would probably be the guy again in a slightly different parallel universe?
     
  8. jyeahfosho

    jyeahfosho mrtechnicalboxer Full Member

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    damatos death. When kevin rooney got fired. Prison, **** allegations. Robin Givens. Don king. Lack of mental discipline without Damato and Rooney around to not let all these things affect him. I would say truly he started veryy slowly declining after damato/rooney. It just wasnt the same Mike. Not training as hard etc.
     
  9. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    All of the things you mentioned. Not one in particular.

    Age and eroding physical attribtes only became a factor after prison. He was never going to rule that long.

    Even if he had beaten douglas He would have eventually had to fight ruddock holyfield bowe Lewis foreman moorer mercer morrison etc all in a span of 3 years. Even if everything had gone perfect he would have slipped up or the physical punishment from all the tough fights back to back would have caught up to him.

    Best case scenario would have been him beating holyfield foreman lewis bowe in tough fights and lost to one of them in the rematches and all downhill from there just from the wear and tear. Emanuel steward said that fighters like him start slowing down as early as their mid 20s simply because their styles are so demanding and require such physical commitment that its not maintainable for long
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I mean ,lack of, he made the wrong choices all along the line,and never took responsibility for his actions a great fighter who could have been even greater ,but a sh*tty human being and his character flaws led to his decline.


    p s Why not just say, for arguments sake?
     
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  11. sauhund II

    sauhund II Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Boxing is 80% mental and 20% physical....he kept it all together until Spinks but it was downhill from there, mentally he already was in severe decline before prison and I hate to agree with Teddy atlas but he simply did not want to fight anymore after prison but the $$$$ was too good.

    I believe Tyson was next to Ali the most naturally gifted with extraordinary talent Heavyweight Price fighter ever but he never ever was able to shake his Ghetto mind set. He was always angry at the World and himself and most of his absurd stunts in and out of the Ring are attention getting blows to destroy any good he has ever done, negativity is his motivation.

    That is the reason he does not give two F's about legacy, history ratings , his career, belts, he literally spits on that stuff or what other people think about him, he loves to be hated because he hates himself.
     
  12. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If he hadnt gone to prison and kept fighting top level competition i think he would have been finished by 95-96 and no longer a factor in the division by the late 90s just from the punishment he would have taken against the top guys in the early 90s. The ruddock rematch was brutal and he would have likely had several more fights like that in the next couple of years
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Douglas's footwork was spot on in that fight.
    He turned and moved but didn't backpedal and retreat like others had done. He broke Tyson's advancing rhythm. And hit with authority as he was doing it all.
     
  14. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He basically suffered from the same fate that every ATG suffers from during a career, nothing exceptional about his case. Tyson at his supposed worst was in a much better condition than many fighters are at their best.
     
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  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Douglas would have been a handful for any heavyweight on that night.
     
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