The Thrilla in Manilla

it is overrated
personally i dont really like the heavyweights i enjoyed tyson until everyone was holdin him and i enjoyed holyfield but more so at lightheavy marciano v walcott was aight but they were cruisers by 2days standards
heavys are too big even in ali's time

 

I thought it was a good, action-packed fight. I also think Ali clearly was ahead at the time of the stoppage. He was nailing Joe all night long with crisp right hands and combinations, and Joe's face at the end of the fight told the story. Joe had some good moments in the middle rounds, but Ali's hand speed and combinations were clearly superior to anything Joe did.

I do agree, however, that the fight is probably a little overrated in terms of how great it was. The fact that it was Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali doing the fighting automatically elevated it into something that maybe it wasn't.

 

I always felt that the third fight was a great effort on both men's part, but I can see how some might view it as overrated. These were not the same versions of Ali and Frazier who met 4 years earlier. They were both declining and noticably. The fight was probably a necessary evil though, because it gave final closure on who the better man was between the two. The second fight was simply not decisive enough to make this determination. In my opinion, this should have been the last and final outing for both of these men.

 

Ali won the first four rounds. Frazier controlled the fight and dominated from round 5 to round 11. Ali won rounds 12, 13 and 14, albeit the 12th was closer than the others. IMO, the winner of the fight would have been decided after the fifteenth round. Let me make one thing clear to the majority of the Ali supporters who believe he was ahead clearly before the fifteenth.

Frazier always puffed through his nose which overhabituates the sinus cavity and accelerates swelling. Ali rarely swelled around his eyes in his career because he always puffed through his mouth, which uses a lot more breath energy. This explains to me why Ali wouldn't have come out for the 15th round had Futch let Frazier come out of his. Ali was fatigued big time and it's been documented by Pacheco and Willie Monroe that Ali told his corner to cut his gloves off. Ali arguably quit Manilla first before Frazier but Dundee wouldn't let him quit, just like how he wanted to quit against Sonny Liston.

To say Frazier's face was swollen as a direct result of all the punches Ali threw in the last rounds of the fight is not accurate. Ali did land some clean hard shots no doubt, moreso near the end of the fight, probably because Dundee and Pacheco encouraged him to leave it all in the ring. I seriously doubt that Ali's cornermen would tell their fighter that he's ahead in the fight with Frazier still backing him up and applying loads of pressure. Frazier's face was beginning to swell as early as the 4th round but it never bothered him until later in his career when his cataracts became an issue.

Going into the last round, I believe the fight was dead even, seven rounds a piece. I won't argue with those who say Ali was ahead maybe a round or two, but to say he was way ahead before Futch called a halt to the fight is discrediting Frazier's work in that fight.

 

But he didn't. If Dundee would have said "fine we'll call it a day if you want", Ali would have carried on. How do I know? Because when this story was first told, in the fight reports, it was at the end of the 10th that it 'apparently' happened. Not the 14th. But the years and re-telling of the story have changed all that.

 

I thought Ali was up by a few rounds at the time of the stoppage. The last couple of rounds, Ali was beating the living **** out of Frazier and the ref should have probably stopped it himself.

I think the fight is incredible. Lots of action and drama to boot. Great great fight.

 

I think it's a great fight too. Even after 12 but Ali's big 13th and 14th pulled him ahead for me. 8-6 in rounds (but a four-point margin after the aformentioend stanzas- both 10-8).

 

The event, significance of the fight and ending are not over rated! The rest of the fight is to me is very good, but not great from rounds 1-14.

 

Willie "The Worm" Monroe was sitting at ringside in Ali's corner and heard Ali say after the end of the 14th round, "cut these things off, I ain't going back out there, that man is crazy."

I don't know why and how the story changed over the years, but I've watched interviews with Pacheco confirming the exact same thing.

Ali wanted his gloves cut off and the only person in the corner ignoring his protests was Dundee. Carlos Padilla might have heard Ali quit on his stool after the 14th round, but he didn't because he did his job like a smart, proper referee and went to the corner of the loser of the round first, which was Frazier.

 

Because the story sounds better that way. It originally said it happened in the 10th so that's the one i'll always believe. As the tale was told so often it seemed that the 14th would make a better story, so that's how it remained.

 

Exactly. Some people take (or want to take) stock of what Ali said, when it's the type of thing he said plenty of times. Here's a bloke that wouldn't even quit when being battered by Holmes five years and a few less brain cells later.

 

I sometimes wonder if Ali didn't always want to prove his durability when he came back. Maybe just a silly pondering on my own part.

Frazier and Ali pounding on each other only hurt both in the end. I'm glad they both put on the shows, but I wish they would have given a bit more regarding relenting. What they did to each other didn't help later on.