The Thriller In Manilla - The 15th Round

Ali was going pretty strong at the end of 14 rds in 1975... Yes, tired as hell, yet in control.... Joe Frazier was eating leather and puffy around the eyes and spitting blood from a cut in his mouth... Had the fight gone 15, referee Carlos Padilla would've stopped the fight with Frazier on his feet but being battered.... Either way, Ali gets the TKO win.... Cheers....

MR.BILL

 

Good point that the two fights were similar going into the 15th. In the first fight, Burt Lancaster said before 15 began in the '71 fight, "there is something wrong with Frazier! He may have a broken jaw!" Watching the 1st fight, I thought Ali won at least 8 rounds, even though in the totality of the fight Frazier had an edge because of the big 11 and 15th rounds. I still think their first fight was their best, and I didn't score the two fights a whole lot differently one from the other. More or less 8 rounds Ali, 5 Frazier, 2 even. But Frazier had the big rounds in fight 1, while Ali had them in fight 3.

A last round knockdown by Frazier would have been a possibility in fight 3. He hit Ali with a hook in round 6 that had him out on his feet. Two victories over Ali would put Frazier in the top 5 AT or close, IMO, especially if one was a kayo. The only problem is he still would have gotten crunched by Foreman.

 

Dundee would've shot Ali if Ali refused to come out for round 15...:yep

MR.BILL

P.S.

As for Padilla speaking of stopping the fight, well, the thought must've crossed his mind at the end of 14..... Joe Frazier was a punching bag..... Eddie Futch did the right thing..... Cheers.......:hey

 

Yes. Padilla said he was going to stop it in the 15:th if Frazier continued eating punches.

 

Eddie Futch is always applauded when he used his judgment to offer sage advice which enabled his proteges (Frazier & Norton) to cause problems for Ali.

But why is his judgment questioned when he did something to save his fighter from pain and humiliation?

 

His decision to stop the fight is mainly questioned because of what was going on in Ali's corner. Ali told Dundee "cut em off" at the end of the 14th, because he was so exhausted. He has said "Frazier quit just before I did".

If it weren't for that, I don't know why anyone would question Futch's decision. Ali was using Frazier as target practice late in rounds 13 and 14. Frazier was taking a bad beating, his eye was shut and he couldn't see the right hand coming. His vision was already shitty to begin with.

 

The quit story was after the 10th round not the 14th. It has been changed to the 14th since because that's how stories go- more drama you see and the punters lap it up.

 

Personally, I think the 15th would have been similar to the 14th but not as brutal. Ali landing at will, but resting for much of the round as he was dead tired and knew the decision was in the bag. Padilla looking on the verge of stopping it but feeling a bit apprehensive as the seconds ticked by.

 

I have pondered this question before. Focusing on Frazier’s corner his eyes were swollen, but not horribly so. A good trainer knows his fighter. I think the pasting Ali put on Frazier late, made Futch think twice. Frazier was not fighting to survive the distance. He was trying to win, and that magnifies the risk.

Futch must have felt Frazier gave all he had to give, and decided to stop the fight. Frazier did not protest much, mostly likely because he did not have the energy to do so.

When a fight ends, fighters can turn into actors. We’ve all seen fighters get up at 11, when we know they could have been up before 10. Yet I did not see much acting by Frazier after the stoppage. If Frazier had shown some fire and told Futch to get out of his way, we likely see the 15th round.

I think Ali wins the 15th round much as he won the 14th with a chance for a referee stoppage.

 

Like Dinner said, Ali would've gotten up and finished the job that was becoming a landslide in the 14th.

Sometimes when you're doing something that costs tons of energy, you reach a point where you think you have nothing left and have to stop. But once you get past that, things can unexpectedly turn better. Ali had that point in the 10th, but survived and somehow found new energy... enough to pour it on and beat the **** out of Frazier in the 13th & 14th, where Frazier was basically a sitting duck.

The 15th would've been more of the same and Joe would've lost. Good stoppage.

 

The quit story - if it has any substance - happened after the 10th and not after the 14th. Thus, it has no relevance as to why Frazier should or should not have have come out for the 15th.

Now, should he have or shouldn't he have come out for the 15th?

You have yourself answered the question in the second para of your post.

 

It seems sometimes we do agree on something on this subject.