The "took his soul" argument

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Cafe, Aug 5, 2018.


  1. Cafe

    Cafe Sitzpinkler Full Member

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    Anyone else just hate this nonsense? It seems to have been started by Mayweather a few years back when someone questioned his wins. A couple of them went on to lose to Pacquiao (in a better fashion) so he came back with "Oh once I beat him he's no longer the same guy"...

    And unfortunately, it stuck. Some fanboys took this home and ran with it.

    So now whenever you have someone's favourite fighter, in order to maximize credit for the W FOREVER and make sure it can never be detracted, just claim the guy's spirit is broken if he loses afterwards REGARDLESS of whether there's clear visible evidence for it or not.

    And it's basically an inarguable position, because you can't REALLY prove one way or the other.

    I know there are cases where a guy is no longer the same after a tough loss, especially a brutal war can take a lot out of the fighter, or perhaps mentality is a big part of their game. But usually you can tell when a fighter's been affected. You can see some things that aren't the same. But sadly, it's come to the point now that whenever a guy takes an L, it's almost automatically assumed that he'll instantly be worse afterwards, which is not true, most guys can and do bounce back.

    P.S I'm not really making this thread because of Kovalev, this is something I've had an issue with for a while now.
     
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  2. ashishwarrior

    ashishwarrior I'm vital ! Full Member

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    Froch took butes that is irrefutable
     
  3. Odins beard

    Odins beard Fentanyl is one hell of a drug.... Full Member

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    I do think certain fighters have mentally destroyed certain fighters in the way they beat them.

    Calzaghe v Lacy and Froch v Bute spring to mind although Bute did go on to put in some very good showings later on.

    Generally it's just good matchmaking or styles making fights.

    But agree with the general concept that it is nonsense.
     
  4. Liquorice

    Liquorice Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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  5. Cafe

    Cafe Sitzpinkler Full Member

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    You see how can you be so sure? Because he started facing better guys after the Froch fight. So all those losses could just as easily be a result of facing better competition. If he went back on to Magees and Miranda's. Perhaps he'd be destroying them in the same fashion, the only bad performance from what I remember he had was Grachev straight after the fight. But afterwards he went on to put decent showings (better than the one he put on against Froch).

    So I don't know about this one to be honest.
     
  6. PolishNavy

    PolishNavy Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Kovalev still had the low blow shxt on his mind minutes before the KO. Look at 10 seconds in

    This content is protected
     
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  7. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Dot, dot, dot... Full Member

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    I think it's the phrase, which is hyperbolic and, therefore, nonsense. I do believe, though, that certain losses and the nature of defeats can have a mental impact which is carried forward into future bouts, especially if they involve a crushing KO. That mental scar must remain to some extent, and the less mentally stronger fighters who suffer such a setback are probably never the same again.

    I guess certain defeats simply highlight never before seen flaws rather than create them and that's hard to deal with for the typical Alpha male. But as for 'stealing souls'? Nah; it's a poetic phrase but also an overstatement...
     
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  8. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Dot, dot, dot... Full Member

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    Weird choice of music....
     
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  9. PolishNavy

    PolishNavy Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I liked the choice, great film reel, love it how in the background you can see Alvarez's fans getting into it. Boxing is awesome man.
     
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  10. Cafe

    Cafe Sitzpinkler Full Member

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    I can get behind that, the "laid the blueprint" argument is a perfectly valid one and for example in Kovalev's instance, Ward definitely did expose certain flaws in him that other fighters can use. I mean Alvarez tonight was probably feeling more comfortable knowing that Kovalev can't sustain his attacks for long and he can't really take it to the body.

    So yeah, I think it's more logical to take this position rather than the as you say the hyperbolic soul snatching one.
     
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  11. Ukansodoff

    Ukansodoff Deontay plz stop ducking Joshua. Thank you. Full Member

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    Im afraid i have to disagree. I think there is something in this. I agree that it is used virtually every time somebody takes a bit of a beating and most of the time that is ridiculous but ive seen souls taken. You dont know until their next fights but sometimes you can see it. I saw the day Audley Harrisons was taken, i saw the day Butes was taken, i saw the day Cleverleys was taken and i saw the day David Prices was taken.

    But Kovalevs wasnt taken he lost his soul in a can of beer.
     
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  12. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Dot, dot, dot... Full Member

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    I'm sure Krusher wasn't humming that tune after the nut shot.

    I reckon it was this...
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    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
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  13. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    Coming back from a loss in boxing is tough. It's not like other sports. Guys who can do it have that little something extra. All the ATGs have it. The undefeated fighters we don't know if they have that extra in them. Kov definitely doesn't. He's mentally not strong.
     
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  14. jaytxxl

    jaytxxl Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I disagree there are many cases where this has happened..

    Loma vs Walters & Rigo
    Froch vs Bute
    Marquez vs PAC 4 made Manny think twice in every fight afterwards..
     
  15. Kissan

    Kissan I respect box Full Member

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    I am kind of a supporter of the "took his soul" thesis. When you are a fighter, who has no losses, and crushes the opponents like nothing, you have a giant ego. It's impossible not to feel like the baddest man on earth.
    You need to have an incredibly strong mindset to bounce back after a loss.
    You can say what you want about Wladimir Klitschko, but he has an incredibly strong mind. A crushing ko-machine, three devastating losses at the beginning of your prime. Then go through hell against Peter and end up becoming one of the best and most dominant champions of all time. You don't see something like that so often. Ali, Holyfield, Wlad Klit, Lennox.
    Look at Tyson, look at Gamboa, Bute, Abraham, Lacy, Kudryashov, Price, Enzo Mack, Chakiev, etc.
    Happens to all tiers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
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