The top 10 modern heavyweights of all time

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Sonny Liston
3. Larry Holmes
4. Lennox Lewis
5. George Foreman
6. Joe Frazier
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Mike Tyson
9. Wladimir Klitschko
10. Riddick Bowe

 

Exactly which black fighters do you think Joe Louis avoided?

What black fighter was there when he was champion who might have posed a significant threat to him in your opinion?

 

The obvious answer would be Elmer Ray. Louis even said that he wanted no part of him, and while I'd pick Louis to beat him, he'd certainly be a high risk opponent.

Side note : I do think that the thread starters comment about Louis not being great is way off the mark, and can't be taken with any degree of seriousness.

 

Ultimately Ray didn't get his title shot because Walcott beat him and got the title fight instead. Perhaps Louis should have been more active later in his reign and fought him before Walcott got to him. There certainly wouldn't be a case for saying that he posed a greater theoretical threat than Schmeling.

The fact that a retired Louis knocked him out twice in exhibition bouts dosnt bode well for his chances.

For my money Jimmy Bivins probably had a better claim than Ray.

 

What dose Modern mean?

 

There were no noteworthy black opponents for Louis in the 30's aside from maybe the light heavyweight champion John Henry Lewis who was in need of a last big payday. Louis granted it to him and knocked him senseless in one round.

Louis went to the army and Bivins emerged as a leading contender but he was on the decline by the time the war ended and the titles were "unfrozen". By then Elmer Ray had piled up an impressive knockout record but he ended up losing to Jersey Joe Walcott. Louis fights Walcott twice, comes back to face Ezzard Charles and settles the issue with Bivins while both long past their primes.

 

So modern starts with Liston? fair enough but who did Louis, Marciano and Patterson avoide?
My list would be.
1. Ali
2. Lewis
3. Tyson
4. Holmes
5. Foreman
6. Bowe
7. Fraizer
8. V. Klitchiko
9. W Kltchiko
10. Liston

 

ALI ____ HOLMES ____ TYSON

The cream of the crop.

 

Ali- Ali had a top notch jab, exceptional speed, great chin, and a will to win like no other. Ali fought during the divisions most competitive era. Ali has the most notable win column of this list with Henry Cooper, Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Ernie Terrell, Zora Folley, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Ken Norton, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ron Lyle, and Ernie Shavers.

Holmes-Holmes ranks second in number of consecutive wins, which was 48. He ranks second with his title reign of over 7 years. Holmes also ranks second with number of successful defenses with a more than impressive total of 20. Holmes' level of competition was not the best, but he managed to defeat 8 men that held world titles at some point in their careers. Holmes had one of the best jabs ever seen, was an accurate puncher, and was able to pick apart his opponent 69 of the 75 times one was place in front of him. Notable wins came against Ken Norton, Ernie Shavers, Ossie Ocasio, Mike Weaver, Muhammad Ali, Trevor Berbick, Leon Spinks, Gerry Cooney, Tim Witherspoon, James Smith, Carl Williams, and Ray Mercer. Holmes was age 42 when he beat undefeated, 30 year old, Ray Mercer.

Lewis- Lewis had his flaws, but did not seem overly confused by any style in particular. He had a size advantage over Holyfield. His competition was on par with Holyfield's. Not to mention a win over Holyfield, though I feel Holyfield had started his decline at that point. Lewis had a booming right hand, stiff jab, and has a victory over every fighter he has faced. With sixteen successful title defenses, spread over the course of two reigns, he ranks third amongst the heavyweight champions. He had a suspect chin, and was not always properly motivated for his fights; but only suffered two set backs in spite of these flaws. It would have been nice to have seen how he would have dealt with Riddick Bowe, but he was able to beat one man that had previously defeated Bowe(Holyfield) He also made short work of Andrew Golata. Golata had previously thrown two dominant performances over Riddick Bowe away due to fouls. Lewis also showed the ability to overcome adversity. He was in very close fight with Frank Bruno, and turned it on to stop him in the seventh. He was losing, in my opinion, to Vitali Klitschko; but seemed to be taking the fight over when that bout was stopped due to an awful gash near Klitschko's eye. Other than the aforementioned fighters, notable wins came against Razor Ruddock, Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Shannon Briggs, David Tua, Hasim Rahman, and Mike Tyson.

Foreman- It is tempting to think of Foreman as having two careers, as two different fighters, because of his ten year layoff from boxing in the middle of his career. Also because of his seeming personal tranformation. I don't really buy the make over. I am not saying he is a scam artist, or that he doesn't believe in his ministry. I am referring to the good guy, bad guy routine. I don't believe that Foreman was ever really a bad guy. I think he was perceived that way because of his strong will and savage strength. He brutalized his opponents in a way that it would seem only a thug be capable of. After his ten year retirement he came back near forty, bald, clean shaven, fat, forcing a smile, and perceived by many as a joke. Also perceived was a change of heart. It is hard paint a forty year old smiling fat man as a villian. George Foreman may now be famous for his smile, but he has never been a joke. Foreman posessed a sledge hammer jab, granite chin, dogged determination, and was probably the physically strongest heavyweight champion ever. Before losing his title to Muhammad Ali, he demolished Joe Frazier and Ken Norton. He was involved in one of the greatest heavyweight bouts ever when he knocked out Ron Lyle. He inspired millions when, Foreman age 42, unsuccessfully challenged 29 year old Evander Holyfield for the heavyweight championship. He later went on to become the oldest heavyweight champion in history, 45 years old, when he defeated Michael Moorer. Shannon Briggs found out that a 48 year old Foreman was stil a formidable foe, when he was pummeled and won a disputed decision over him in Foreman's final outing.

Frazier- Joe Frazier was armed with one the best left hooks in division history, was strong willed, and had the gas to burn. Frazier's most notable wins were against Buster Mathis, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Bob Foster, and Muhammad Ali. It is also important to notice he only lost to two men over the course of his career, both of which make this list.

Holyfield- Holyfield moved up from the cruiserweight division, where he was also champion, to excel in the heavyweight division like no other fighter moving up from below 200 lbs. has ever done. What he lacked in size, he more than made up for it with courage, determination, chin, and heart. He also had decent strength, a crisp punch, and above average speed. While his boxing skills were always apparent, he reinvented himself after losing his title to Riddick Bowe in 1992. He put on a masterful performance when he beat Bowe to regain his title a year later. He seemed to decline afterwards, losing a disputed decision to Michael Moore. He again rose to championship form, putting on a wonderful boxing display in stopping Mike Tyson, and another solid outing when he stopped Michael Moorer in their rematch. Other notable wins came against Michael Dokes, an aging George Foreman, an aging Larry Holmes, Ray Mercer, and Hasim Rahman.

Tyson- Tyson was the youngest heavyweight champion ever, and had the best blend of speed and power ever seen in a fighter. He came out a winner in twelve title bouts. Tyson had the ability to rank higher on this list, but lacked the discipline. He never bested another elite fighter (Larry Holmes was 37), but Trevor Berbick, James Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Larry Holmes, Tony Tubbs, and Frank Bruno were all world titlists at some point in their careers. The knock on Tyson is that he never really overcame adversity in his fights, but when you were as skilled as he was you don't come across adverse situations all that often.

Bowe

V. Klitschko

W. Klitschko

 

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Lewis
4. Foreman
5. Frazier
6. Liston
7. Holyfield
8. Tyson
9. W. Klitschko
10. Bowe

 

1. Ali
2. Foreman
3. Frazier
4. Holmes
5. Liston
6. Tyson
7. Holyfield
8. Lewis

The last 2 spots would require more thinking.

 

No offense, but that's a really shitty list. Ron Lyle over Larry Holmes? Over Liston, Over Klitschko... Riddick Bowe over the guy he absolutely hid from, Lewis?

Tell me you have been drinking.

 

Here´s my list.
Wouldn´t put any Klitschko in a top ten list at the moment.
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Larry Holmes
3. Joe Frazier
4. Mike Tyson
5. Sonny Liston
6. George Foreman
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Floyd Patterson
9. Ken Norton
10. Lennox Lewis

IMO
The Predator