The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

Nah, I think lists are kind of bull****. Impossible to fairly quantify this objectively. It's maddening and purely impossible. You can drive yourself nuts trying. And you'll never be completely satisfied.

 

Jimmy Wilde should really feature somewhere.

 

I got you to drop Rocky a tier, so I've done my help.

Dominance seems an odd reason when comparing him to a fighter who was every bit as dominant, probably even more so at the top level. Johnson doesn't rank anywhere near Langford because his resume/accomplishments and such are **** in comparison and because his win was over a man he outweighed by 30lbs who had yet to come into his own. Obviously not the case with Gomez-Zarate.

One guy was really dominant, looks really good on film, has a devastating stoppage win over a great fighter.

One guy was really dominant, looks really good on film, has a devastating stoppage LOSS to the only great fighter he ever met.

This is a much more pressing matter than anything to do with Ike Williams.

 

then my work here is done :good

 

I think a top 50 is very hard to assess and very few people have actually compiled such a list.

I'm not really confident with anything below my top ten right now

Robinson
Greb
Armstrong
Fitzsimmons
Langford
Charles
B Leonard
Ali
Moore
Pep

My next 15 names feature the fab 4 for definite. Also in there is Louis, Whittaker and Walker. I can also say confidently I'll put the trio of Ross, Canzoneri and McLarnin will be there.

I'll probably find myself having Barbados, McFarland, Dixon and McGovern and Jones.

I agree with your sentiment regarding Burley and Williams ranking close together their respective careers showed they belong in the same tier, Williams got the better of their series and i believe he spent more time ranked above Burley than not.

I can't see Rocky being a lock for above Holy though. I really disagree with that. By and large I agree with most of your picks and my only issues are fab 4 too low (though I reckon I'm in the minority there) and Rocky ranking above Holy p4p. Although that being said, Rocky has knocked out two of my top ten and another of my top 25. So I can see that actually thus negating what I said.

The main point is I agree too much with everything bar the disparity between the fab 4 but that's me in the minority I think.

I like the tier idea as well it makes it much easier to begin to conceptualise.

 

Gomez ain't on the list and Zarate is.

I was talking about this particular comparison specifically, btw, not making a broad statement like 'loser can't outrank winner ever.' I get Langford over Johnson because it's obvious and the fight between them means little. I don't get Zarate over Gomez because you can't just give Zarate points for dominance and not give equal points to Gomez for the same and because the fight between them means a lot. Zarate never beat a true ATG, Gomez did, and it's not like Zarate was really washed up or just too small. He wasn't good enough to beat Gomez is all.

This is a problem with your list, I think, and I'm trying to help you sort it out. I'm being all sorts of friendly, man!

 

No, what's happening is that inside you've sort of acknowledged your massive oversight but won't concede and are now just typing lots of words to make it seem like a rebuttal.

You can rate either Williams above Williams. I already said I think it's reasonable to do that.

My whole point is that there is no ****ing way they are four or five tiers apart. It's not like you can say Holman was more dominant (if anything it goes to Ike from '46-'51). Or that he fought better opposition (you could swing either way but both fought in extremely tough eras; they're roughly even for me - certainly, Gavilan, Basilio, Carter, Basilio, Jack, Montgomery, Angott, Joyce, Dawson; and deficit to Holman would be negligible). Or that people thought he was better (I've been a fan of Holman for years since reading about his uppercut mastery; lots of people thought he was an excellent, unsung boxer, but people were also calling Ike the lightweight Ray Robinson). Or that the consensus agrees with you (I never or very rarely see Holman above Ike).