The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Feb 15, 2013.


Page 163 of 245
  1. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,426
    1,467
    Sep 7, 2008
    Not a valid comparison at all mate.
     
    Flea Man, Apr 4, 2013
    Flea Man, Apr 4, 2013
    #2431
  2. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,850
    239
    Feb 19, 2012
    It wasn't really a comparison so much as a statement that how you look on film has little to do with how effective a boxer is. Wilde reputedly had an amazing radar and bone crunching power. He's got a chance with anyone.
     
    LittleRed, Apr 4, 2013
    LittleRed, Apr 4, 2013
    #2432
  3. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,426
    1,467
    Sep 7, 2008
    Anyone who could fight by his era's standards, yes.
     
    Flea Man, Apr 4, 2013
    Flea Man, Apr 4, 2013
    #2433
  4. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,426
    1,467
    Sep 7, 2008
    I hope everyone sees my point. I love the era, love discussing it, researching it and rank the fighters accordingly. My hunch is they weren't that good compared to what came after.
     
    Flea Man, Apr 4, 2013
    Flea Man, Apr 4, 2013
    #2434
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,669
    21,957
    Sep 15, 2009
    I think generally speaking boxing took a huge step up in the 20's based on what I can see. There are exceptions before then who still look impressive but they're few and far between.

    You can take people from the 20's onwards who still pass a modern eye test imo.

    It's tough rating guys h2h when you haven't seen them.yourself.because it's relying too much on second hand info. I suppose it's better than nothing whatsoever but it's a tad unreliable.
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 5, 2013
    lufcrazy, Apr 5, 2013
    #2435
  6. Lester1583

    Lester1583 Can you hear this? Full Member

    4,426
    27
    Dec 18, 2008
    I see your point.

    And, yes, Papke's pants does look frightening.
     
    Lester1583, Apr 5, 2013
    Lester1583, Apr 5, 2013
    #2436
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,028
    48,144
    Mar 21, 2007
    I don't think Wilde belongs with the fighters you've mentioned, at all. His contemporaries were Benny Leonard, Gene Tunney, Johnny Dundee and Jack Britton, not Ketchel, Johnson, Corbett and Fitz. He turned pro in 1911, same year as Leonard.

    Leonard passes the eye test. Tunney, turned pro three years after, passes the eye test. Dundee, turned pro the, year before, passes the eye test. Britton, turned pro years before Wilde, beat Mickey Walker who passes the eye test and then some.

    These are the defining technicians of his era, and they all look great. But Wilde doesn't fight like a technician from his era. They all thought of him as a freaky, weird *******. He explored a dead end dirt track of technique, now fenced off with police tape because it's littered with the corpses of guys who tried to imitate him - but he was talented enough to make what was regarded as a bizarre style work. This gives him the air of a prototype, perhaps, but he is only one in the sense that Harry Greb was one.

    Greb, too, was a peer of Wilde's who would appear strange on film.
     
    McGrain, Apr 5, 2013
    McGrain, Apr 5, 2013
    #2437
  8. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,426
    1,467
    Sep 7, 2008
    Good point I was using broader strokes.

    Wilde looks far less like the others of 'his' time IMO. When did he turn pro', 1910?

    I love a good awkward stylist as you know. But he looks downright shoddy. As El Bujia agrees.

    You agree that Ketchel, Johnson et al look abysmal? And yes I appreciate some of their archaic tricks, parries and whatnot and understand why they fought in the style they did. I just am not sold on Wilde being that good, the lighter weights were cack for decades IMO. As I said earlier, Pancho Villa is the first filmed midget that looks good.
     
    Flea Man, Apr 5, 2013
    Flea Man, Apr 5, 2013
    #2438
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,028
    48,144
    Mar 21, 2007
    I guess Wilde looks "bad" in the same way Vitali Klitschko looks "bad", in that it looks weird but made him in arguably one of the best of his era - an era that included many fighters who "looked" good.

    I wouldn't use that word to described Ketchel and Johnson, no, although I'd agree that they would struggle if you dropped them in a 2010 ring.
     
    McGrain, Apr 5, 2013
    McGrain, Apr 5, 2013
    #2439
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,028
    48,144
    Mar 21, 2007
    I'm not huge on these lists, as you know, but is Wilde the only fighter there is to be ranked #1 in a division by Fleischer, Rose and Goldman all?
     
    McGrain, Apr 5, 2013
    McGrain, Apr 5, 2013
    #2440
  11. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,426
    1,467
    Sep 7, 2008
    Yeah but there lists seem pretty shocking for the most part.

    I think he is though. They seem to be biased the further back you go, if anything we should be debunking the whole 'Wilde was the best ever' spiel.

    Which you have in your piece actually, fair play, you justified him being outside the top 20 :good

    EDIT: as I've said many times, his P4P achievements are extraordinary. I'm just not comfortable with him being labelled greatest fly ever.
     
    Flea Man, Apr 5, 2013
    Flea Man, Apr 5, 2013
    #2441
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,028
    48,144
    Mar 21, 2007
    Yeah, I just found it interesting that he united them in their thinking.

    As a final word, I'd say that i'd expect Wilde to do much better than the other guys you've mentioned here, if you picked him up and dropped him in the forties.
     
    McGrain, Apr 5, 2013
    McGrain, Apr 5, 2013
    #2442
  13. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,426
    1,467
    Sep 7, 2008
    Nah, I think Wilde just looks bad, again I love the freaks.

    And 2010 ain't exactly my choice of era anyway :D
     
    Flea Man, Apr 5, 2013
    Flea Man, Apr 5, 2013
    #2443
  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,426
    1,467
    Sep 7, 2008
    Fly was not all that in the 40s mind you. Well, for most of the decade anyway, for obvious reasons.
     
    Flea Man, Apr 5, 2013
    Flea Man, Apr 5, 2013
    #2444
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,028
    48,144
    Mar 21, 2007
    So what's your explanation for his knocking out bigger technicians in the era of Benny Leonard and Gene Tunney?
     
    McGrain, Apr 5, 2013
    McGrain, Apr 5, 2013
    #2445
Page 163 of 245