The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

That is excellent

 

Saddler was an OG. Remember what I just said.

Iron chinned power puncher.

Don't get more OG than that. Ad to the fact he was a nasty, vicious mauling fighter and massive at the weight and you've got a horrible, twisted creation sent in to do what the plane crash could not and prove Willie Pep human. And arguably solidify Pep's high standing by giving him a clear loss to avenge. The third and fourth fights don't do much damage to Pep's rep' IMO, just show what a grinder Saddler was.

 

Who and what do you think I've compared to Herrera? I was comparing his facial disfigured against Bus Station, I should've made who I was speaking about and in what context much clearer.

I agree with pretty much everything. I'm not sure Saddler would've won even with those last three rounds...well, he would've done as he was ahead but I can't see why at that point really. I was only counting rounds meself, not writing down who won what. Just felt Elorde was getting the better of it and was unfortunate to be stopped on a cut. I don't think he was done.

Bloody good watch though I thought, better than I remembered it, great to see fighters this great and have all the rounds and whatnot, Saddler is pest his best but we still get to see a lot of him, in a title defence no less. Great bit of footage.

 

I concede.

 

it's a shame we didn't see Saddler move further up in weight and get ****ing hammered a few times.

 

He dis beat a still learning Joe Brown.

Or do you mean to welter?

 

just right into the thick of things above 130 and up to Welter, ideally past his prime too.

I don't mind the physical freaks that make weights most of their build would never be able to, if they still win with a high degree of skill and overall ability, but someone who trades so much on superior physicality and power is never going to be one of my favourites.

Duran would have taken that rough-housin slop and broke his back across his knee.So would Armstrong for that matter imo.


None of this has much bearing on how i rate his effectiveness at feather or 130 mind you.He'd beat most feathers, but he's still a big shufflin' carthorse.

 

:bbb

 

Harry Weldon, the renowned sporting editor of Cincinnati Enquirer, had this to say in his Sunday column a week or two after Lavigne-Walcott I. Now, if you look up how the second match went, he was right in his prediction.


When the match between Joe Walcott, the Black Wonder, and George Lavigne, the Saginaw Kid, was first talked of Frank Kelly, now the manager of Australian Billy Murphy, said in my presence that, in his opinion, Lavigne would have a better chance of whipping the black than either a welter weight, a middle weight or even a heavy weight. Kelly's argument was this: He thought that Lavigne, being nearly as short as Walcott, would have a chance to hit him in his only vulnerable region, the body. "These big fellows have no chance with Walcott because they cannot hit him where it will hurt him," said Kelly. "Walcott, to start with, is very short for his weight. In the next place, when he fights he crouches down, making him still shorter. The only place a big man can hit him is in the head, and you might as well try to batter down the Chamber of Commerce with a stuffed club as hurt him by hitting him on that little top piece of his. Lavigne is just the man for him. He'll down on an equal basis with him. He'll get under his guard and pepper his heart and body, and he'll have a good chance to win."

Kelly's prediction was carried out to a letter. It was the body and heart blows that made Walcott sick of his job, and took his steam away from. Walcott is a freak, and it was thought that there was nothing to stand in his road. His downfall came from a most unexpected quarter. Some people insist that if ever these men fight to a finish Wolcott will win. I do not share this opinion. Lavigne, by his record, is the stiffest body fighter in the ring. He is not a knocker-out. He is even worse. He is a "man killer." A knock-out does not mean any great amount of physical pain to the recipient. In five or ten minutes after a defeated pugilist by the "knock-out" route is as good as he was before the fight began. A man who has been beaten down by visitations of the heart and body blows feels it for weeks, and in some instances never recovers. Poor Andy Bowen was a victim to Lavigne's terrible body punishment. A burnt child dreads the fire, and it is dollars to dimes that if Walcott and Lavigne ever fight to a finish the black will have in mind from the start the body grueling he received in his other engagement. He'll be thinking about it all the time, and if he is not the "real thing," if there is any kind of a yellow streak in his make-up, it will come to the surface when Lavigne sinks his awful mawley into his body. It is strange that Tom O'Rourke ever matched Walcott against Lavigne. His great stock of ring trickery must have left him for the nonce. O'Rourke was onto the fact that big men were easier game for Walcott than little ones. Wiley Evans, the colored welterweight of this city, who traveled with the O'Rourke combination part of last season, made known this fact the other evening. "Why, when they used to have Walcott meeting all comers O'Rourke would pick out all the big, tall suckers that would apply, but he would put off the short, stocky-built applicants with a talk that they were too little," said Wiley. "Walcott liked the big ones. He could get at their heart and stomach, and they couldn't reach anything but his head. I believe Walcott could whip Lavigne if they came in at catch weights."

 

With the next batch set to come out soon I'm going to give this a shot one more time, please know with all due respect. Hopefully it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

As I've mentioned, Ross outside of the top-15 is a real shame. Especially behind Ray Leonard. Interestingly enough, I find their careers somewhat similar and easy to compare so here we go. Name of the game? DEPTH.

Barney Ross vs. Ray Leonard ​

- Fab Four vs. The Holy Trinity (Points for a much cooler name :good Kidding...)

Ray Leonard (McGrain's rankings)
Marvin Hagler (34)
Thomas Hearns (44)
Roberto Duran 2-1 (11)

Barney Ross
Tony Canzoneri 2x (21)
Jimmy McLarnin 2-1 (22)


Marvin Hagler was a beast; Leonard beat him after a long layoff. Amazing. But Jimmy McLarnin is greater and Ross beat him TWICE.

Thomas Hearns was a head-to-head monster. But Tony Canzoneri is undoubtedly greater and was the favorite going into both fights with Ross. * The fiasco with the low blows? It was Canzoneri throwing them -- was Leonard getting punched in the nuts? JK...

Along with Leonard's series with Roberto Duran most of these fights have their back stories and/or controversy. But Leonard never showed CLEAR superiority of these contemporaries like Ross did. And again, Ross' rivals were explicitly historically greater than Leonard's.

After this, again, all Ross and it's not even close.

Ray Leonard
Wilfred Benitez (86)
Johnny Grant
Randy Shields
Floyd Mayweather Sr.
Tony Chiaverini
Pete Ranzany
Ayub Kalule
Donny Lalonde
Bruce Finch
Adolfo Viruet
Dave Green
Andy Price

Barney Ross
Battling Battalino
Billy Petrolle 2x
Johnny Farr 2x
Frankie Klick 2x
Bobby Pacho 2x
Ray Miller
Tommy Grogan
Baby Joe Gans
Ceferino Garcia 3x
Joe Ghnouly
Chuck Woods 2x
Izzy Jannazzo
Pete Nebo
Sammy Fuller

Depth, depth, depth, depth, depth, depth , depth, depth...



Ray Leonard fought 40 times in his career? Ross fought 48 times in the final 6 years of his career -- ALL against high level competition.

Barney Ross picked up more quality wins... In a greater era... In such a rapid pace and brilliant fashion. Isn't that what it's all about?