The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Feb 15, 2013.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Part Ten is going to be ****ing huge. Like, 9,000 words huge :lol:
     
    McGrain, Apr 16, 2013
    McGrain, Apr 16, 2013
    #2641
  2. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Who are we pulling up? Roy Jones obviously.

    Okay, I think it needs to be discussed to. Which fights do you think Roy used for? I'm genuinely interested as, even as a Roy fanboy (and a big one) it sits in the back there.

    Floyd's got a big head.
     
    Flea Man, Apr 16, 2013
    Flea Man, Apr 16, 2013
    #2642
  3. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    Richard Hall. But he was on it too :deal
     
    turbotime, Apr 16, 2013
    turbotime, Apr 16, 2013
    #2643
  4. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    I don't even count any of those light heavyweight defences towards his record anyway. Schooling D-level challengers when he could've blasted 'em in a round or so? In retrospect I found myself not as impressed with the Roy I grew up and loved the more I understood the fights I'd seen.

    However when I watched all the stuff before I got into him (which is when I really got into boxing) which I'd only seen in highlight form before my mid-teens, was when I realised he was as incredible as I'd thought. I wasn't a noob kid amazed by aesthetic beauty. Jones was absolutely peerless for years. I learned more about his middleweight and super middleweight opposition, and watched the full fights with Hop' and Toney.

    As long as he wasn't 'roiding for any of those fights I'm not arsed. A few light heavyweight bouts aside I am totally underwhelmed by Roy's body of work there. Seeing as there are small heavyweights who didn't, ahem, pack on a load of muscle that beat similarly ranked heavyweights to John Ruiz that doesn't particularly blow my mind either. I do not consider him a champion 'from middleweight to heavyweight' in any way whatsover. That is not an achievement I assign him when figuring out 'who is greater'.

    It's also why he is in the 40-50 bracket for me. Despite him being my boyhood hero (no exaggeration) and still one of my absolute favourite fighters of all time.
     
    Flea Man, Apr 16, 2013
    Flea Man, Apr 16, 2013
    #2644
  5. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    I don't know about D class, but they certainly weren't like the triumphs at his lower weights, sure.
     
    turbotime, Apr 16, 2013
    turbotime, Apr 16, 2013
    #2645
  6. Body Head

    Body Head East Side Rape (CEO) Full Member

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    Roy Jones clearly ahead of Hopkins, Mayweather and Pacquaio...y'all musta forgot AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE CAUSE STONE COLD SAID SO.
     
    Body Head, Apr 16, 2013
    Body Head, Apr 16, 2013
    #2646
  7. anj

    anj Guest

    I give John Ruiz his props for being a legit champ, his resume leading to Jones doesn't look bad.

    Roy was never as good, post-harding aka post-steroids. His roid level was 5-6 times greater than what is allowed. Roy's game was speed and athleticism, he benefitted the most out of steroid usage. H2H third best fighter ever IMO, with the steroids that is. I don't have any evidence of him taking steroids during his SMW reign but I have the impression that once a roider, always a roider.

    Honestly, I seriously believe Hagler and Leonard had takens steroids too.

    I can only guess, but Holmes and Holy look like blatant roiders. Holmes' athleticism even in his older years is quite questionable too.

    I just have my doubts about the 60's-00's era..

    Maybe James Toney should be kicked out of the Top 100. We are in awe of his resume not just because of his SMW reign but his move up to heavyweight and doing well there, as well as cruiser. He was a huge weight cutter also who most likely used substances to help with that, especially making weight 2 weeks before the Roy fight despite weighing at least 30lbs over the fight weight. With roids, he couldn't do a lot of things. i.e his heavyweight reign, he'd be a slow plodding, weak little **** at the weight without the roids. Those wins against Holy and even someone like Jirov...nahhh.

    Emile Griffith:
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    - That was him at 160 against Joey Archer
     
    anj, Apr 17, 2013
    anj, Apr 17, 2013
    #2647
  8. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    turbotime, Apr 17, 2013
    turbotime, Apr 17, 2013
    #2648
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol:
     
    McGrain, Apr 17, 2013
    McGrain, Apr 17, 2013
    #2649
  10. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Exactly how many times has toney been caught using roids
     
    Mr Butt, Apr 17, 2013
    Mr Butt, Apr 17, 2013
    #2650
  11. anj

    anj Guest

    anj, Apr 17, 2013
    anj, Apr 17, 2013
    #2651
  12. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Again, Salavarria tested positive and Monzon was lambasted for fleeing a test.

    How can Ruiz be 'a legit champ' unless you feel he was the iron clad no.1 of the time? That is what 'champion' means.
     
    Flea Man, Apr 17, 2013
    Flea Man, Apr 17, 2013
    #2652
  13. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    There are more 'roids now. Why tar Hagler and Leonard with the brush but not Floyd?
     
    Flea Man, Apr 17, 2013
    Flea Man, Apr 17, 2013
    #2653
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    #19 Packey McFarland (69-0-5; Newspaper Decisions 37-1-1)

    Records list a single newspaper loss for Packey McFarland to an unknown in 1904, the year of his professional debut. Occasionally described as a fifth round knockout, research has revealed the contest may have been awarded to the otherwise unremarkable Dusty Miller on a foul; McFarland reportedly took his revenge in an unlisted three-round knockout of the single man to beat him. Whatever the detail, he was never beaten again. Fighters of this era fought with great frequency, and McFarland was no different except in that one thing—he did not lose.

    Incredibly, this near-perfect record over more than one-hundred fights never brought him a world title, but in meetings with champions of the past or future he was consistently and inarguable the better. In his key year of 1908, he outpointed the future lightweight king Freddie Welsh over ten fast and brilliant rounds before meeting former title claimant Jimmy Britt who he destroyed in six. Britt, who was “outclassed in every department,” had met both Terry McGovern and Joe Gans but labeled Packey the fastest fighter he had ever met. Referee Jack Welch, who had refereed Jack Johnson, Abe Attell and Joe Gans, amongst others, named him “one of the best boxers I ever saw.” Three months later he boxed Welsh to a controversial draw, named a McFarland win in many quarters but a legitimate tie by others, a result the two repeated in London two years later. The London bout was controversial according to the Cincinnati Enquirer’s London correspondent writing that the decision was “hooted from cellar to roof. Never was there such a scene in the club. The decision was unanimously declared the worst ever declared at the club…[E]ven those who wagered on Welsh joined in the demonstration.”

    It would be 1912 before he would meet with another champion, this time up at welterweight where he met and bested welterweight title claimant Ray Bronson and then in 1913 Jack Britton, two years before he would lift the 147-pound crown. The wire report notes wryly that whilst McFarland was clearly slipping, finding a fighter to beat him was going to be difficult.

    That unknown writer was quite correct. Britton tried again later in the year and once more came up short, and even after two years out of the ring he was able to come back and take the newspaper decision from the active and the great middleweight, Mike Gibbons, settling inexorably any argument concerning which of the two great denied men was the best fighter of the era to go without a title. Between that match and his defeat of Freddie Welsh, McFarland went a listed 20-0-5 and was on the right side of the argument in any meetings deemed to be draws. His victims included Tommy Murphy (credited with wins over Abe Attell and Ad Wolgast), Jimmy Duffy (credited with wins over Freddie Welsh and Ted Kid Lewis), Leach Cross (who beat Joe Rivers and Battling Nelson) and Owen Moran (one of the few men accredited with beating Wolgast and Nelson both).

    Sporting an upright stance of varied depth, he owned the most cultured left hand of his era and used it to dominate his competition with a stylist’s joy supplemented by a puncher’s gristle, although it was his speed that really set him apart. So fast at hitting and moving that words like “bewildered” and “uncertain” littered the sports reports of the era in relation to his world-class opposition and that Owen Moran actually laughed at himself whilst he boxed Packey, shaking his head at his own inability to land. Like Roy Jones he seemed to box under different physical laws than that of the opposition—unlike Jones, he got out before the mortals could catch up to him, part of the reason he is listed here, with the truly     immortal.

    [yt]C8elvaCReGA[/yt]
     
    McGrain, Apr 17, 2013
    McGrain, Apr 17, 2013
    #2654
  15. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    Going by the article I'm guessing it's because Hagler and Leonard didn't get tested.
     
    turbotime, Apr 17, 2013
    turbotime, Apr 17, 2013
    #2655
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