The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Feb 15, 2013.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    #18 Terry McGovern (59-5-4; Newspaper Decisions 6-1-4)

    The destructive prowess of heavyweight upon heavyweight champion has been lauded and fetishized in the past one-hundred years of boxing, but it is very probable that none of them—not Tyson, not Dempsey nor Marciano—had the sheer and destructive prowess of “Terrible” Terry McGovern.

    Between turning professional in 1897 and the end of 1901, McGovern boxed sixty times and lost just twice on disqualifications. Pedlar Palmer was the poor soul caught holding the bantamweight title when McGovern bludgeoned his way to number one contendership, knocking out ten of twelve, chopping down made men like so much wheat. It is likely Palmer was not intimidated for he was a most excellent champion, victorious in six title fights and unbeaten since turning professional.

    “McGovern simply battered his opponent into partial sensibility,” reported The San Francisco Call. After just 144 seconds, Palmer was “laying helpless but semi-conscious on the floor of the ring.” The brutal prototype for every swarming power-puncher to follow had been born.

    He immediately relinquished his title and moved up to featherweight in search of bigger game, specifically the great featherweight champion, George Dixon. Terry wiped out nine consecutive featherweights in making his case, most impressively Harry Forbes, a bantamweight champion of the future who had only been stopped once before—also by McGovern in 1898. It had taken him fifteen rounds on that occasion, but on this occasion he shortened matters to two, punishing Forbes brutally for the crime of attacking him. Bigger or smaller, nobody extended him further than three rounds between title shots. By the time George Dixon gave him the nod, he was boxing with the apocalyptic savagery of a butcher turned trained killer.

    A narrow favorite, Dixon started brightly, feinting and leading for the head, but McGovern unleashed upon him the most terrible body attack of the era, two-handed, each thudding blow bound inevitably for the champion’s kidneys. This pattern repeated itself through the early rounds, Dixon coming closest to saving himself with a left hook that sent McGovern into and nearly through the ropes in the second, and a huge right hand that staggered the challenger in the third; but that was all. Wearing him down with an incessant, autonomous offense, McGovern dropped Dixon as many as seven times in the eighth round. He was retired on his stool by his corner.

    “Veteran followers of the prize ring,” commented the New York Tribune, “will look upon the result much as they did upon the downfall of [John] Sullivan or Jack Dempsey.”

    McGovern was the first man to knock the legendary Dixon out. Six months later he met lightweight champion Frank Erne in a non-title match. Erne was coming off a stoppage victory over Joe Gans. Terry smashed him to pieces in three. In those twelve months, he became the first man to knock out the reigning bantamweight, featherweight and lightweight champions of the world. As intimidating in his short prime as Mike Tyson or Sonny Liston, he also brutalized the best fighters in the world in three different weights. Relative to his peers, perhaps only Henry Armstrong and Harry Greb can lay claim to twelve month periods as impressive. More likely, no one can.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    #17 George Dixon (67-29-51; Newspaper Decisions 6-1-4)

    George Dixon was a pioneer. As brilliant a technician as his era produced he was as much a pathfinder of boxing technique and style as Tommy Ryan or Nonpareil Jack Dempsey. Alas, the racism that ran rampant in much (but by no means all) of the sports-press of that time fetters even historians enlightened by these more reasoned times, and Dixon often doesn’t get the credit he deserves. His record, though, cannot be undermined by something as banal as prejudice, nor his great talent.

    His prime lasted an astounding decade. Traveling to England to become the first black man to win a world title, he beat Nunc Wallace to claim the old-weight featherweight title, cementing that claim amidst tumultuous scenes against Johnny Murphy upon his return to America, overcoming a world-class opponent as well as multiple attempts at sabotage by a partisan crowd desperate to see the black man fail. He did not fail. The result was one of the greatest title runs in history that saw him box defense after defense of either the bantam or featherweight titles.

    Dixon made eight successful defenses and won numerous non-title fights before dropping a questionable decision to Frank Erne. He immediately recaptured his title and avenged himself upon Erne before dropping a legitimate decision to Solly Smith (whom he had previously beaten by knockout). By this point he had been the best fighter in the world for a number of years, but was about to be usurped by the coming Joe Gans. Nevertheless, he reclaimed his title, then receiving a questionable decision of his own, over Oscar Gardner, his decline seemingly deepening but Dixon, as always, surprised, adding an additional eight title defenses until Terry McGovern chopped him down in 1900. He boxed on for another six years, but wins were few and far between. Having lost four in ten years, he would lose eleven in just two, going 1-10-11 in what heralded the saddest decline of one of boxing’s greatest trailblazers and warriors.


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  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    #16 Ray Leonard (36-3-1)

    For some, Ray Leonard has only one peer in all of boxing, Sugar Ray Robinson, perhaps the greatest fighter ever to have lived. I believe there are other fighters that share this class, but I have some sympathy with those that think otherwise—both Rays had literally everything.

    Leonard held a brutal shot, as he proved in fights with Tommy Hearns, against whom he also proved his power and heart. Against Hagler, whatever your own opinion of that decision, he demonstrated a maxed out boxing IQ and once in a generation type generalship. He was fast, fit, and technically brilliant but riffed with the best of them; he was close to perfect.

    But, compared to most of the men on this list, he hardly boxed a career. Most of his fellow greats hadn’t even fought for a title when Leonard hung them up. Leonard is fascinating in that he crammed enough great wins into those few fights to find himself firmly ensconced in the top twenty regardless. Between 1979 and 1987 he defeated Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran and Thomas Hearns, then after a short retirement came back past-prime to shade Marvin Hagler. Few of the men ranked above him have four better wins, never mind the men ranked below. He also defeated Randy Shields, Floyd Mayweather Sr., Dave Green, Ayub Kalule and Donny Lalonde. His one prime loss is to the all-time great Roberto Duran but it was a fight the naturally smaller man should not really have been winning. In tandem with a relatively short career arch, it keeps him from the top fifteen.


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  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    #15 Archie Moore (185-23-10)

    Archie Moore is a testimony to the effects of gathering experience in boxing. As a young middleweight, although clearly already superb, his form against the best he faced was decidedly patchy. Stepping up class in 1939 after three years as a professional, Moore was outpointed by the great Teddy Yarosz who seems to have outfoxed him. He was also twice beaten by Shorty Hogue but in the first of what was to be a succession of turned corners, he boxed a draw with the brilliant Eddie Booker in ’41, calling upon that experience to lay Hogue low in just two rounds the following year. Moore had overcome the first marker denoting his improving quality. There would be many more in his career, his domination of Jack Chase then tempered by his one-sided loss to Charley Burley; piercing wins over Lloyd Marshall blunted by his defeat to Jimmy Bivins; his going 1-1 with the great Holman Williams undermined by the 3-0 drubbing Ezzard Charles dealt him. Despite these setbacks, finally, painfully, Moore summited the absolute heights, probably indicated by his three rematches and defeats of Jimmy Bivins, first edging him on points, then twice stopping him.

    “I never went out thinking knockout at the start of the fight,” said Moore, who nevertheless became the all-time knockout king with 131 stoppages stretching from welterweight to heavyweight. “I’d go in there thinking, ‘Let’s see how I can hit this guy without getting hit. Can I work on is ribs? Can I wound him with a punch to the biceps?’ A lot of boxers don’t understand that a decent shot to the arm can make an opponent back off.”

    This is the type of considered thinking and tactical awareness that built in Moore one of the most formidable strategic quilts ever sewn. One of the truly great ring generals, he left no stone unturned in his quest for tactical superiority. After stomach surgery left scar tissue on his abdomen, Moore would make a show of protecting it against an opponent, momentarily expose it and then counter the body shot he knew he had hooked and baited. The lessons he had learned against the infamous Black Murderer’s Row would finally be unleashed upon champion Joey Maxim in 1952, who he also beat twice in rematches. In his lengthy run to the title he had beaten fellow great Harold Johnson three times out of four, Billy Smith, Bert Lytell and had also begun edging his way towards heavyweight, a division which he would never rule but in which he would still do damage. In defense of his light-heavyweight title, which he only lifted at the age of thirty-nine, he knocked out Harold Johnson, Bobo Olson, Yolande Pompey, Tony Anthony and Yvon Durelle as well as outpointing Giulio Rinaldi and Joey Maxim. He never lost his title in the ring and up at heavyweight he defeated Howard King, Bert Whitehurst, Nino Valdes, knocking out much heavier men such as Bob Baker, Embrel Davidson and James Parker.

    It took him three decades, but the Old Mongoose was eventually able to distinguish himself from the men that harried him so in his youth, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Eddie Booker and Shorty Hogue all long retired by the time Archie Moore ruled the world.


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  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    #14 Barney Ross (72-4-3; Newspaper Decisions 2-0)

    Unquestionably the greatest man on this list, upon his retirement Barney Ross enlisted in the United States Marine Corps and demanded he be sent overseas to fight in World War Two rather than kept at home in a ceremonial role like so many other celebrities. He fulfilled his self-determined obligations and more, killing a reported twenty Japanese soldiers in defense of three wounded comrades, carrying the only other survivor of the engagement to safety behind his one-man battle. He was awarded the Silver Star.

    He returned home addicted to painkillers and heroin, an addiction he broke in the second toughest fight of his life. Perhaps his unbreakable heart is in part responsible for his astonishing achievements in the boxing ring.

    Between beating the excellent Ray Miller in 1932 and his retirement in 1938, Ross lost two fights—one, a split decision loss to the great Jimmy McLarnin, disputed, twice avenged, and once to Henry Armstrong in his very last fight. He beat:

    Ray Miller, Battling Battalino, Billy Petrolle twice, Joe Ghnouly, Tony Canzoneri in two title fights, Sammy Fuller, Frankie Click, Jimmy McLarnin twice, future middleweight champion Ceferino Garcia, Phil Furr and Izzy Jannazzo, winning the 135-pound, the 140-pound and the 147-pound titles in the process. Never anything like a full-grown welterweight, he was still able to defend that title several times after winning and re-winning it from McLarnin, before Armstrong caught up with him.

    Along with Canzoneri and McLarnin, Ross made up the holy-trinity of that era’s boxing deities, and he was the master. He defeated the other two twice whilst losing only once to McLarnin, going 4-1 against his generation’s best who both rank here in the top 30 all time. Never knocked down in his professional career, a chin of hewn granite was the bedrock of a technical styling that nevertheless placed him in the danger zone against bigger men and brutal punchers. Capable of outboxing the faster Canzoneri, or outfighting the big-punching McLarnin, Ross was one of the defining talents to box between Harry Greb and Sugar Ray Robinson, his astonishing triple-crown achievement and as wonderful a prime-run as can be seen outside of the top ten seeing him sneak onto this list just ahead of Ancient Archie.


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  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    #13 Willie Pep (229-11-1)

    Can a fighter be said to be in his prime after surviving a plane crash that fractured both his back and his leg? If not, Willie Pep lost exactly once in his prime, to the naturally bigger world-class lightweight Sammy Angott, also the only loss he would post in his first 136 fights. Already the reigning featherweight champion of the world, Pep had embarrassed the huge punching Chalky Wright over fifteen one-sided rounds late in 1942. Pep was a nightmare for a stalking slugger like Wright. Perhaps the best pure boxer ever to have fought, his style was propelled almost entirely by faultless footwork that left him out of range in two short and graceful steps but brought him back in to range with the same smooth elegance. He feinted with his feet, boxing high on his toes whether he was pivoting, stepping out or stepping in, coming down only when he was ready to punch and it was safe to do so. Fundamentally correct in essence his style was technician-plus in the sense that what he did could not be taught or learned, it was an instinctive understanding of the harmony of distance and relative positioning and a fighter so exquisitely balanced as to be able to take advantage. It is something that can be said or implied about every fighter left to discuss but it is perhaps especially true of Pep: there has never been another one like him.

    In part, this is a matter of era. Pep’s incredible potentiality was fulfilled by the experience he accumulated in more than 240 fights. In appraising his record there is a concern voiced by some that Pep built the greatest run in the sport’s history against weak opposition, that his record contains a great deal of filler. It is true that he didn’t box ranked men every week, but he did outbox, outhustle and sometimes humiliate a roster of former, present and future champions that belies those concerns. In addition to Wright, who he beat several times, he defeated the diminutive former featherweight champion Joey Archibald; former featherweight champion Jackie Wilson; tricked, trapped and knocked out future featherweight champion Sal Bartolo; completely outboxed the primed all-time great bantamweight champion, Manuel Ortiz; future lightweight champion Paddy DeMarco; the superb European featherweight champion Ray Famechon; and former NBA featherweight champion Phil Terranova. Terranova was an excellent and difficult fighter who would go on to beat the man that would define the second half of Pep’s career: Sandy Saddler.

    Pep beat Saddler only once, in their second confrontation regarded as one of the most extraordinary boxing displays in history, including by Pep himself who named it the greatest night of his career. In their three other meetings, Saddler outhustled and ground down Pep, stopping him on each occasion, denying Pep space and ripping him out of his comfort zone with a combination of brutal offense and absolutely superb pressure footwork. Losing 3-1 to the best fighter he met in one of boxing’s most astonishing careers does hurt Pep’s standing here; had he retired in early 1950 after taking his revenge on his nemesis, he would likely rank even higher. As it stands, his nine defenses boxed over two spells as featherweight champion, in combination with perhaps the greatest hot streak in boxing fought against quality opposition sees Pep nestled just outside the top ten.


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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    #12 Mickey Walker (94-19-4; Newspaper Decisions 37-7-1)

    Think of a fighter weighing over 200 pounds; Mickey Walker would take that fight. His own weight varied greatly during what is one of the most storied careers in history, from 140 to 175 pounds, but it was up at heavyweight he made his most stunning impact. He outpointed the 210-pound Bearcat Wright, the 200-pound contenders Paulino Uzcudun Johnny Risko and King Levinsky, rated all, he knocked out the 200-pound Les Kennedy in two rounds, the 223-pound Arthur De Kuh and the 205-pound Salvatore Ruggirello in just one, fought future heavyweight world champion Jack Sharkey to a draw and fought former heavyweight champion Max Schmeling so hard the German found himself begging the referee to stop the fight as Walker sucked up an horrific beating and kept coming. He made himself a legitimate heavyweight contender despite the fact that he never weighed in as one and stood just 5’7. “It was my idea to fight the big guys,” Walker would say casually some years later, “to see if I really could. As a kid, I found it easier to fight big guys.”

    Raw ingredients make for the best stew and Walker brought extreme durability, a very nice punch, and frightening physical strength. These are all things that can be said about another welterweight slayer of heavies, Barbados Joe Walcott who retired just eight years before Walker turned professional in 1919. Like Walcott, Walker did seem to find it easier to fight big guys, the jaw-dropping feats of giant-killing he perpetrated amongst the heavyweights not reflected by dominance or wider resume at his natural weights of welterweight and middleweight.

    Certainly the most natural heir to welterweight grandmaster Jack Britton, he nevertheless needed two bites at the old man to pick him off. He then managed defenses against Pete Latzo, Lew Tendler, Bobby Barrett and in a close struggle with Dave Shade, who he edged out to claim a 2-1 victory in their series. Latzo then returned to take his title from him and after another loss to Joe Dundee, Walker moved up. Having already been beaten soundly by Harry Greb at middle, he needed a highly debatable decision to beat Tiger Flowers but with that out of the way he ripped some superb scalps at middleweight and light-heavyweight: Tommy Milligan, Mike McTigue, whom he had also bested in a no-decision contest when Mike had held the light-heavyweight title, Jock Malone, Leo Lomski, Paul Berlenbach and the fearsome Ace Hudkins. He would never lift the championship at 175, bested by both Tommy Loughran and Maxie Rosenbloom for the title that would have forced him into the top ten, but even Rosenbloom fell to him in a non-title match less than a year later.

    Boxing with the bigger men is what made Walker truly great and the period between 1927 and 1931, five full calendar years and thirty-seven fights during which he was only beaten by Loughran is what squeezes him ahead, barely, of Willie Pep.


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  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    #11 Benny Leonard (90-6-1; Newspaper Decisions 93-18-7)

    Just as the alphabet governing bodies are the enemy of clarity in the modern era, so the no-decision bout could confuse the title picture one-hundred years ago. A champion refuses to put up the title in anything but a no-decision bout against an emerging talent, that talent outboxes the champion for a one-sided newspaper decision, and what do you have? An outclassed champion who up and walks away with the title anyway. It is a wonderful thing then, when a truly great challenger finds a way to rip that title from the opponent anyway, by knocking out a champion who can box only to survive, by stopping a champion who only has to make the final bell to remain the champion of the world. This is what Benny Leonard was able to do against no less a figure than Freddie Welsh in 1917. Welsh had never been stopped before and never would be stopped again but Leonard, who had won and lost a newspaper decision to Welsh in the previous two years, did what the great ones do and found a way. Thirty seconds after the opening bell for the ninth of ten rounds, Leonard broke through with a right hand that sent Welsh to his knees. He hauled himself to his feet, as champions will, but after being dropped twice more he was rescued by referee Kid McPartland. The Leonard era had begun.

    It lasted seven and a half years, a time during which he may have crept into double figures for defenses. The picture is made uncertain by Leonard’s coming in overweight for his 1920 defense against Charley White and by the confusion surrounding both the weight stipulation and the bizarre non-effort of opponent Jimmy Duffy in 1919. He was no abuser of the no-decision rule however, and when he failed to put away Lew Tendler whilst jabbing and crossing him to a clear newspaper decision in 1922 he repeated the feat in a legitimate but close decision bout in 1923.

    For all that he was not the busiest of champions. He was a busy, busy fighter often boxing three times a month during his early twenties which included more than one sojourn up to welterweight in search of that title, boxing a close no-decision with champion Ted Kid Lewis in 1918, and losing in a bizarre disqualification to then champion Jack Britton in 1922. Never the man at welterweight he nevertheless outpointed bigger men like Soldier Bartfield and Jack Britton [newspaper decision 1918] during the course of a career that did not see him dominate competition as brilliant as that of Joe Gans or engage in the weight-hopping exploits of Roberto Duran but that nevertheless saw him defeat multiple champions of the world and first-class men of all styles. He retired as undefeated champion of the world, unbeaten by knockout or in decision fights between 1913 and 1932, and if his comeback was deemed a failure (he went 19-1-1) it was only because he set the bar so high for himself.

    His placement here outside the top ten is perhaps the ultimate endorsement of those that are enshrined within.


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  9. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    Quite surprised to see Benny outside the top 10. Quite happy that it means Duran will make the cut.

    McFarland sounds more and more impressive every time I hear about him. That final line about him and Jones is pretty wonderful.
     
  10. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    Scary Terry.

    We rate Walker the same.


    And Pep outside the top 10 :party :hammertime :party
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Cheers.

    Very last minute and a really hard thing to do. In the end, the more I looked the more confusing the picture got so I just went with my gut, which is not ideal but there it is.

    Hmmm, maybe that's a cause for celebration, i'm not sure, but I do know I found it hard leaving him marooned at #13. It doesn't look good to my eye, but I could not force him any higher.
     
  12. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    Oh dont worry, it's time to pop some bottles.
     
  13. Vysotsky

    Vysotsky Boxing Junkie banned

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    I would be interested in hearing these things you're considering because i can't see any possible argument for Apostoli above Steele.

    During his 4 year MW run between ages 21-25 Steele went 43-2-1 (overall record of 125-5-11) and to put his activity into perspective Hopkins went 42-3-1 during his 15 year run. His two losses came against great MW's (Apostoli, Hostak) both of which occurred with Steele's breastbone injury that ultimately caused him to retire at age 25. Apostoli on the other hand had 6 losses during his prime, arguably 7, a career record of 61-10-1 and Steele undoubtedly has the deeper resume.
     
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  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Pep outside the top ten is brave and commendable, something I feel but rarely have the balls to say.

    Walker>Leonard :clap: Barely a moral victory for me, but chuffed nonetheless.

    Leonard outside the top ten means Gans, Louis, Ali and Duran in the top 10. I can live with that, even with Gans and Louis outside my top ten.

    No quibbles with how it's turning out really. Lovely stuff McGrain, thanks for the enjoyment you've given me reading it mate.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No touching, weirdo.