I'm not trolling, I'm not an internet guy. I'm stating opinions, and some facts. I think you're the troll and the baiter, seeing as theres no response or reasoning as to why JJ is omitted from this list.
Lets see: Joined yesterday, first post was about Jack Johnson and Duran with racial undertones. Has only commented here. But definitely not a troll! The race posting is very frowned upon here. If you seriously wanna keep posting, stop. And if I'm a troll, then I'm the best damn troll on the site. Feel through to look through my years worth of posts.
Jack Johnson is not on this list because he really does not belong nor have much of a case for it....unless you rate him as a top 5 HW? You may, some do...I do not. Does this make me racist? I am not sure but I don’t have any Asians or Latinos on my top 10 HW’s either and only 1 gentleman with....uhm how did you say it? Low melatonin? The guys he beat that are on the list. Do they have extensive resumes in other weight divisions? If so that is why the are elevated above him, because “most” P4P lists reward those who jump weight and fight in multiple divisions. This is why not a ton of any HW’s make these lists. If their is a bias or prejudice at work it is geared towards HW and/or 1 division fighters (Hagler/Monzon) and no particular race or ethnicity. Trying to make it into a race argument is pretty lame especially if you interact with most of the posters here...not the trolls that come and go. To me Johnson is just outside of my top 10HW’s so for me he has no shot at being included on this list!
There we go, that's what i'm looking for, some reasoning. Listen I 100% agree that you can't put him near the top of the list, and, now that you point out that a lot of the guys he beat that are on this lisf, fought in multiple weight divisions, I see a bit more reasoning behind it... But, I 100% rate him in my top 10 heavyweights, hell I rate him in my top 3. He changed the game and he beat the best, he layed a formula for all HW boxers to see and replicate, and improve on for years to come. He beat the best at that time, took all challengers, avenged most of his defeats and in most footage made it look easy. Now what you're saying is fair, and I don't think you're a bigot, but I think there is an unconscious bias against Jack Johnson because he's been underranked by so many boxing historians, due to his identity, and his personality that has been admired in certain other champions. My last point to try and get Johnson on this list, Lennox Lewis is on the list, and i'd really struggle to believe anyone that says Lennox Lewis did more for, or in, the sport of boxing than JJ.
Also I do not care if i'm banned i'm not an internet guy but Duran is white, Hispanic is a heritage not a skin colour, I don't get why people would combine the two, it wasn't common to do that historically.
I am glad that you don’t think I am a bigot or question which way my bigotry runs since I have never disclosed my race or ethnicity on this forum, nor am I likely to anytime soon..because well I really don’t care. There is a case to be made for Johnson as a top 5 HW...I just see it different. Historically significant? Perhaps...but maybe more so if you are American to boot? I am not a Lewis fan and am not sure he would make my list here (been years since I have tried to flesh one out and I seem to keep putting it off, because I rather watch boxing than make lists in the past 3 years or so?), but I do rate him above Johnson as my 3-4 HW alongside of Holmes. Now I am extremely prejudiced and if you stick around you will see it! I find HW boxing the most boring division out there, and much prefer the lighter weights especially Fly-SFW and enjoy LW-MW almost as much. But if you read boxing articles as well as this forum McGrain is generally seen as a knowledge boxing guy who is fair and balanced so the racial innuendo won’t sit well with most posters here....or the mods who do a good job of removing race baiters....I hope that’s not you but hey if you are our time of interaction won’t be long lived enough for either of us to care to deeply.
are you Hispanic? Because I know a good many of them who would disagree with you? Or is it ok for you to accuse or imply a racial insensitivity in others while in reality it just may lie inside of you instead?
That's deep... But yeah, no, I stick to my statement man, theres never been the same kind of racial bias against Hispanic historically compared Afrrican heritage, and if you were to stick people in a room with two buttons, white or black and you showed a photo of Duran for real what button is getting pressed? Again this is relevant only in the context we are speaking, I.E historical prejudice in boxing, and I don't think you have a leg to stand on when disagreeing with that, and I could flood this post with quotes from newspapers and magazines but lets be honest no one including me want's me to have to do that over a mootpoint :') I'm not amassive fan of heavyweights either, but props where props due, to a man who fought in five consecutive decades! How many people have done that? Do you think LL would still be competitve now? 50 years for people to adapt styles and work him out, and the guy was still competitve. Gotta be honest with you though, do not rate Holmes, IMO he only fought men who had already been broken, Cant argue with the resume on paper though. Ima state my last point one more time though so i'm clear. I think that there is an unconcious bias against certain fighters in the minds of the people, in the past, present and future, due to media coverage, or lack thereof. (I think everyone can agree to this.) One of the fighters who has been subjected to this the mostin history is JJ, make your own reasons as to why, but that is true. I believe that because of that he has been overlooked massively, historically, and still today.
There are a huge swathe of black fighters on this list. Lots of them weren't "silent", including Sam Langford who you clearly know nothing about. Painting this as racism is utterly ridiculous and beyond stupidity. It's also a personal sleight on me and entirely baseless. It's also paranoid and weird. Even if you're right and it is a "travesty" why have you immediately assumed it's race? There's absolutely no other evidence of this except what is made up in your head. I could just know nothing about boxing or be really stupid. You've arrived on the forum and "made an account", by your own admission specifically to accuse someone you've never met of racism. That's utterly bizarre by any stretch. I rank Jack Johnson at #9 at HW. There is nothing strange or odd about this. It's the lower end of his normal range. I also think HW is the second weakest of the eight traditional weight classes behind flyweight and having constructed and published top fifties for each of the traditional weight classes I feel I know my subject matter. If you have even a basic grasp of mathematics you'll be able to calculate that this puts Johnson in the lower reaches of the top 100 at best. Shut up about race. Stop talking about it. Nobody has any interest in what you have to say about it and not one single word you've written since you came here that lies in the realm of opinion makes even a modicum of sense.
I think the fact you're taking it personally, means you haven't read what i've said. Outrage culture all over. Also you picked Sam Langford, so it seems like you know something about boxing, the dude lost to bums in his prime, how can he be the greatest, and how the hell can you rank him No:1 when there's next to no footage on him. You're telling me I don't know about boxing, you've probably never stepped foot in a gym ****ing armchair expert. I made a relevant point about unconcious bias, and you take it personally like the rest of your echo chamber buddies in here. As I said, I think most people rate him lower because of the lack of respect he gets by the media, and again, this is an absolute undisputed fact: He didn't get any respect from the media in the years he was alive, and for quite a few decades afterwards, because he was an outspoken, brash, black man, who married white women. THAT'S A FACT! It took nearly 100yrs for him to be pardoned for a BS crime because of who he was. If you don't understand my perspective now after I've explained very clearly, then I think you need to go outside and speak to some real people face to face, because you clearly don't understand how to have a conversation.
Also I very specifically said "it's funny how.", I.E a general observation, absolutely nothing personal about it, tbh I didn't even know this was a list made by one person, I assumed many contributed to it. But jesus judging by the way most of you reacted, I.E trying to get me banned for making an observation, and saying how you've banned other people for bringing up, I guess a similar issue, then it probably is applicable to a lot of people in this forum.
I think your argument for a top 25 placement falls apart when you include Gatti, Hatton and Baldomir Why does Moore facing Ali and Rocky have anything to do with how I great he is? He lost by stoppage both times.
I've produced a detailed accountancy of his ranking and the reasons for it; if you wish to produce a refutation i'm all ears. "He got beat by bums" won't do it though. So now we've had "because racism", "he got beat by bums" and "bet you've never boxed" from one guy in a handful of posts. You sure you're not an internet guy? Thanks. Don't make it again. Utter drivel. Jack Johnson is a hero and is hugely respected by "mainstream media", are you high? And he just received a historical pardon from the President of the United States of America for "crimes" he committed a hundred years ago. His stock hasn't been higher since Joe Louis retired. This content is protected This content is protected Absolute nonsense. Beyond embarrassing. "Jack Johnson was a great fighter and he won the heavyweight title by the most honourable methods." - Fred Turbeville, Seattle Star, July 30th 1919 "Monday afternoon when [Johnson and Jeffries] strip down and don their gloves it will be man against man and the spectator who allows Johnson's colour to detract from his ability is not a true sportsman and would demonstrate very bad taste" Franklin's Statesman, July 2, 1910. "Another thing that I want to boost is the crowd [at the Johnson-Jeffries fight]. It was the most orderly bunch of fight fans I ever saw. I wasn't insulted once and nobody had a word to say against me. There was no hooting and when I walked out of the ring and winded my way through the crowd, instead of getting shot at or hit on the head with pop bottles as some of the people expected if I won the sports all congratulated me...I want to thank the spectators." - Jack Johnson "Jeffries would have been beaten by Johnson when he was in his prime in the opinion of the men who saw yesterday's battle. Impregnable and invincible to all other heavyweights, Jeffries would have been as easy prey to the colored champion seven years ago as he was yesterday." - The Nevada State Journal. "Race feeling? There was none manifested this afternoon; there was no thought given to the fact that Jeffries had been defeated by a colored man." - The San Francisco Call. I have literally hundreds like this. The idea that it's a FACT that Johnson got "no respect from the media" is pure fantasy, and comes directly from the inside of your head, only. He was hugely respected in his time, he was hugely respected afterwards, and even if that wasn't true (and it irrefutably is) he is hugely respected now. Universally regarded as one of the greatest heavyweights ever to have lived. He was treated abominably by the Government. I understand your perspective; hopefully you now understand how utterly flawed and rooted in fantasy it is.
I'm not "trying to get you banned". I'm a moderator. If I want you banned, you'll be banned. But people get banned for making ill-informed, untrue, race-driven posts here sometimes, yes.
