The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

First this list looks pretty good upon inital scanning....But Conn is not 3 tiers above Loughran (If he is above him at all)....

Ali/Louis are so close they inhabit they same sphere be it HW and/or P4P thus they should both be tier 2 and B. Leonard should move up to level 1....I would also yupon reevaluation slide Gans, Walker up to tier 1.

???? Is Rocky rated as your #3 HW (If so I guess this is cool)? If not is it based upon his weight (under 200) and if so where is Dempsey on your charts???

I love seeing Jofre & Olivares (dixon) getting some much needed props for the bantams...but where is Jeff Chandler? Move him in and Zarate out.

 

:happy My brother, the next time you are in Philly, the cheesesteaks are on me!

 

There is something I just read, and it genuinely angered me. I will not say what it was. ****ing... **** :-(

 

Pintor strongly disagrees.

 

oh flea...

one, love this thread so far. two, while i would rank harada above floyd as well i agree a bit with mcgrain that he'll be more appreciated in years time. the flaws so readily apparent now will fade over time

 

I understand this, but you have to remember, at a time when Harry Greb was about, Leonard was considered the pound-for-pound best in the sport. Many considered him the best of all time until Robinson (and some refused to hand over that title, but of course those lot are long gone).

It seems criminal to rate even Charles above Leonard, who seems to be overrated by about one or two spaces these days. I never thought I'd say that. Yes, he flew under the radar of Robinson and was in the mix with Pep, Louis and to a lesser extent Williams and Ortiz, and in retrospect he was a magnificent fighter - but of the magnitude of Leonard? Not quite.

Sometimes I even have doubts over Armstrong being greater than Leonard!

Leonard even retired early after that terrific streak of 80-2-1 - he hadn't even run his course after completely dominating a very strong lightweight era in what was one of the most popular times for boxing. A mover, a jabber, a puncher, a defensive specialist and a strategist with a Robinson/Ali/Monzon level of durability. He was in fact so dominant that it was a rare sight to see him scuffed or bruised even slightly.

Ali, ****. I know all the ins and outs of that man and I do rate him highly, but to separate him and Leonard by a full tier is madness unless it's Ali underneath, or you're counting fame and political & social influence.

 

manassa, your posts (especially those concerning moore) have been awesome lately. got to disagree though. i see no issue with placing charles above leonard and routinely do myself. it's not a wide gap either way but i feel that charles has the slightly better record at the very top level and his ability to move up to heavyweight and do what he did pushes him over leonard

 

Thanks, and you're right of course - Charles can be rated above quite reasonably. I just don't see it. Leonard can't match the individual wins over Moore and perhaps not even Burley (arguable), but that lightweight period he completely outclassed was one of the strongest ever, and a 2-1 against Jack Britton, a welterweight in McGrain's top ten, is just icing. Charles, though undeniably top class (and one of my head-to-head best evers; and #6 pound-for-pound), didn't carry the same air of invincibility that shrouded Leonard, who, like I said, jumped out at people as the 'greatest of all time' until Robinson. His peak years included a long, long streak of quality wins and he was as dominant as anyone, ever, despite the competition.

 

and realy it's what factors weigh more heavily: top tier wins or longevity and dominance. benny dominated probably the lightweight era ever, charles dominated probably the best light heavyweight era ever.

and it's really the moore and burley wins that i rank higher than leonard's own, with the heavyweight reign pulling him ahead.

 

Floyd is bestest Flea. Consistency. And unlike Lopez the man hoped up since weights, beat some baddies, and never lost. Bestest my man, bestest.

I just watched Silver Linings Playbook (for the second time). If that was in Pittsburgh about the Steelers, it would win the Oscar.

Loughran took a fight off conceivably the greatest fighter of all time, held his own with Tunney, and beat Mickey Walker, all three of whom make your top 50. He also won against guys like Mike McTigue, Jeff Smith, Johnny Wilson, Young Stribling, Jimmy Slattery, Leo Lomski, Pete Latzo, and Georges Carpentier. If that's not enough Loughran moved up and held his own at heavyweight and even beat two future heavyweight champions in James Braddock (albeit at 175) and Max Baer, split a pair with another champion in Sharkey and took the reigning champion to the distance giving up 84 pounds.

 

I'm just not sure how familiar everyone is with Leonard's opponents. There are some great names on there. I get the feeling most of them are forgotten. Jack Britton is a good example; by rights, he's really a top ten all-time welterweight.