The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

Above of below Tiger Flowers?

Flowers has Latzo, Malone, Bogash (nearly inlcuded Bogash in this tier), Greb, Moody, Allentown Joe Gans, Wilson, a decent secondary clutch. I'm leaning towards LaMotta over Flowers personally...Flowers might miss the cut. Those troubling wins over Greb are just that though...

 

It's likely to work the other way at the mo (if Morales and Benitez survive - again if Morales is 99 and Barrer is 101 and Marquez is 98 I think that's absolutely fine).

 

I think i'm leaning that way. The thing is though, whilst the Robinson win is nice, was there ever a case where a boxer beat a great but still had his total inferiority so completely proven? Robinson beat LaMotta five times after all...that first loss starts to look like an anomaly. On the other hand Flowers came very close to proving himself the superior of a faded version of my #2 all time, and only some uncertainty surrounding those decisions makes that statement uncertain.

 

No, one of them was close. But all of the Flowers-Greb fights were close.

Hell with it though. LaMotta is in.

 

Tier I
1) Sam Langford
2) Harry Greb
3) Ray Robinson
4) Henry Armstrong
5) Bob Fitzsimmons
6) Ezzard Charles
7) Muhammad Ali
Benny Leonard

Tier II
Joe Gans, Mickey Walker, Archie Moore, Roberto Duran, Packey McFarland, Joe Louis, Willie Pep, Sugar Ray Leonard.

Tier III
George Dixon, Joe Walcott, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin, Sandy Saddler.

Tier IV
Gene Tunney, Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones, Terry McGovern, Billy Conn, Kid Gavilan, Stanley Ketchel, Eder Jofre, Tommy Loughran, Tommy Gibbons.

Tier V
Julio Cesar Chavez, Ruben Olivares, Alexis Arguello, Jose Napoles, Emile Griffith, Jack Britton, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Jimmy Bivins, Tommy Ryan.

Tier VI
Mike Gibbons, Evander Holyfield, Fighting Harada, Michael Spinks, Thomas Hearns, Carlos Ortiz, Ike Williams, Jimmy Wilde, Rocky Marciano, Young Corbett.

Tier VII
Ted Kid Lewis, Carlos Zarate, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, Salvador Sanchez, Abe Attell, Wilfredo Gomez, Freddie Steele, Vincente Saldivar.

Tier VIII
Oscar De La Hoya, , Miguel Canto, Harold Johnson, Manuel Ortiz, Dick Tiger, Lloyd Marshall, Freddie Welsh, Jack Dempsey (np), Jim Driscoll.

Tier IX
Fritzie Zivic, Pascual Perez, Bob Foster, Panama Al Brown, Azumah Nelson, Mike McCallum, Sammy Angott, Lou Ambers.

Tier X
Sammy Mendell, Pete Herman, Teddy Yarosz, Young Griffo, Johnny Kilbane,

Tier XI
Jake LaMotta, Erik Morales, Wilfred Benitez, Larry Holmes, Benny Lynch, Juan Manuel Marquez, James Toney, Fidel LaBarbara, Beau Jack, Lennox Lewis, Kid Berg, Ad Wolgast, Marco Antonio Barrera.

Missing Out
Kid Norfolk, Les Darcy, Tiger Flowers.

Also considered
Joe Frazier, Apostolini, Joe Calzaghe, Marco Antonio Barrera, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Kid McCoy, Nico Locche.

 

OK, how does Benitez stack up?

Between '73 and '81 he has one loss, to genius Ray Leonard. Astonishing physical abilities, wins over Cervantes, Petronelli, Shields, Palomino and Roberto Duran. Burned out, never managed the longevity his style and youth promised. Only beaten by greats in his prime though.

How does he stack up against Morales? Zaragoza, Molina, Junior Jones, McCullugh, Barrera, Pacquiao, Kelly,Espadas, Chi, Ayala, Chavez. Won his first strap in '97 and his last (we think!) in '11. Has the longevity in a weird way. Lost the two major series of his career. Only lost to Barrera in his absolute prime.

I think the Duran win gives this one over to Benitez, but Jesus H Christ it is close.

 

Yeah, you're right: they're both in. That is insanely close, I thought Benitez would dominate that.

 

I've also moved Lynch and Marquez and Holmes back from X to XI making X tiny and ludicrous

Vysotsky, please note that a couple of pages ago i've suspended discussions on the body of the rankings.

 

OK both feet time. Here are the destination tiers for the guys who got in this morning.

IX - Lou Ambers
X - Johnny Klibane, Young Griffo, Teddy Yarosz,
XI - James Toney, Fidel LaBarbara, Beau Jack, Lennox Lewis, Kid Berg, Ad Wolgast
Missing out - Tiger Flowers, Les Darcy, Kid Norfolk
Also considered - Joe Frazier, Apostolini, Joe Calzaghe, Marco Antonio Barrera, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Kid McCoy, Nico Locche.



All very arguable at this point.