The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

Jack Dempsey...

...is coming down a tier if nobody has a strong objection. I really really rate him. He was unquestionably p4p #1 and only really had McAuliffe and Sullivan for company at that time in that regard, he was even regarded, at 150lbs, as a reasonable opponent for Sullivan. He was also at the absolute Vanguard of a scientific revolution in the sport that put him further ahead of his peers than arguably anyone in history.

But. I think that his resume is weak, legitimately, in this kind of company. McAuliffe met better men IMO (but was very lucky to hold onto his title - not the case for JD).

Any objections, let me know.

 

Check out post one, which explains what is happening now and what will happen next.

 

I do disagree with you. I would have been pretty comfy with him in the 100. Superb on film, utterly dominant, very respectable resume and unbeaten.

But it don't matter at this point - he didn't make it.

 

People at the time considered him so far ahead of his opposition that when he lost they dismissed it. Everyone he fought was considered to be outside of his class.

I've looked in detail into McAuliffe's opposition and found this

[url]http://www.eastsideboxing.com/weblog/news.php?p=30741&more=1[/url]

and this

[url]http://www.boxing.com/the_great_and_forgotten_jem_carney_and_his_74_round_war_with_jack_mcauliffe.html[/url]

Brilliant, world class fighters who were regarded as the champion's near equal. A similar look at Dempsey hasn't yielded anyone anything like as murderous. Good fighters; but not great ones. I think moving him down a tier is called for given the company.

 

Abe Attell and Rocky Marciano.


I want to move Attell up a tier. I let my personal distaste for him get in the way a bit I think. All those defences, it's an incredible run really.


Tier VI
Mike Gibbons, Evander Holyfield, Fighting Harada, Michael Spinks, Thomas Hearns, Carlos Ortiz, Ike Williams, Jimmy Wilde, Rocky Marciano, Young Corbett.

Tier VII
Ted Kid Lewis, Carlos Zarate, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, Salvador Sanchez, Abe Attell, Wilfredo Gomez, Freddie Steele, Vincente Saldivar.


So I want to move him out of VII and into VI. Coming the other way, Rocky Marciano. Rocky is unbeaten and against the best, but as a champion he didn't mount a great deal of defences and as a contender he didn't put on an exceptional pre-title run due to denial or anything, but he looks a bit high.

Attell up, Rocky down.

Any objections?

 

Demspey, Oscar and Marciano move down; Attell moves up.

Tier I

1) Sam Langford
2) Harry Greb
3) Ray Robinson
4) Henry Armstrong
5) Bob Fitzsimmons
6) Ezzard Charles
7) Muhammad Ali
Benny Leonard

Tier II
Joe Gans, Mickey Walker, Archie Moore, Roberto Duran, Packey McFarland, Joe Louis, Willie Pep, Sugar Ray Leonard.

Tier III
George Dixon, Joe Walcott, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin, Sandy Saddler.

Tier IV
Gene Tunney, Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones, Terry McGovern, Billy Conn, Kid Gavilan, Stanley Ketchel, Eder Jofre, Tommy Loughran, Tommy Gibbons.

Tier V
Julio Cesar Chavez, Ruben Olivares, Alexis Arguello, Jose Napoles, Emile Griffith, Jack Britton, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Jimmy Bivins, Tommy Ryan.

Tier VI
Mike Gibbons, Evander Holyfield, Fighting Harada, Michael Spinks, Thomas Hearns, Carlos Ortiz, Ike Williams, Jimmy Wilde, Abe Attell, Young Corbett.

Tier VII
Ted Kid Lewis, Carlos Zarate, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, Salvador Sanchez, Wilfredo Gomez, Freddie Steele, Vincente Saldivar, Rocky Marciano.

Tier VIII
Miguel Canto, Harold Johnson, Manuel Ortiz, Dick Tiger, Lloyd Marshall, Freddie Welsh, Jim Driscoll, Jack Dempsey (np).

Tier IX
Fritzie Zivic, Pascual Perez, Bob Foster, Panama Al Brown, Azumah Nelson, Mike McCallum, Sammy Angott, Lou Ambers, Oscar De La Hoya.

Tier X
Sammy Mendell, Pete Herman, Teddy Yarosz, Young Griffo, Johnny Kilbane,

Tier XI
Jake LaMotta, Erik Morales, Wilfred Benitez, Larry Holmes, Benny Lynch, Juan Manuel Marquez, James Toney, Fidel LaBarbara, Beau Jack, Lennox Lewis, Kid Berg, Ad Wolgast, Marco Antonio Barrera.

Missing Out
Kid Norfolk, Les Darcy, Tiger Flowers.

Also considered
Joe Frazier, Apostolini, Joe Calzaghe, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Kid McCoy, Nico Locche.



Order of busienss

1) I'm going to raise some issues I have with the list.

2) Any issues you have with the list are to be raised and discussed.

3) Numerise the tiers.

 

Pernell Whitaker, Terry McGovern, Barbados Joe Walcott, George Dixon

OK last for me, then i'll turn it over to you guys, but this is quite a big one.

Tier III
George Dixon, Joe Walcott, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin, Sandy Saddler.

Tier IV
Gene Tunney, Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones, Terry McGovern, Billy Conn, Kid Gavilan, Stanley Ketchel, Eder Jofre, Tommy Loughran, Tommy Gibbons.

I want to move Pernell Whitaker and Terry McGovern up, and Joe Walcott and George Dixon down.

Pitch in oh this one if you read this please, even if you just say you agree or don't care.