The top 5 fighters in each weight division on a h2h basis as evidenced by film

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by sweet_scientist, Dec 27, 2008.


  1. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    88
    Nov 8, 2004
    Thread title is pretty self-explanatory. Who are the best five fighters for every weight class in a head-to-head sense by virtue of the evidence we have on film?

    I don't want to hear names like Fitzsimmons, Wilde, Greb, Langford, B.Leonard, Gans etc., because the film available simply doesn't back those claims up. It is either too scant, unclear or non-existent all together.

    I want lists from fighters you have seen a fair amount of.

    Let me start by putting forth my picks for the bantamweight, featherweight and lightweight divisions - the divisions I feel most comfortable in.


    Bantamweight
    1. Eder Jofre
    2. Carlos Zarate
    3. Ruben Olivares
    4. Fighting Harada
    5. Jeff Fenech

    Featherweight
    1. Sandy Saddler
    2. Salvador Sanchez
    3. Azumah Nelson
    4. Vicente Saldivar
    5. Eusebio Pedroza

    Lightweight
    1. Roberto Duran
    2. Henry Armstrong
    3. Pernell Whitaker
    4. Julio Cesar Chavez
    5. Barney Ross
     
  2. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

    34,800
    17,886
    Jul 29, 2004
    Lightheavyweight

    1. Charles
    2. Moore
    3. Foster
    4. Spinks
    5. Tunney

    ????..Just a quick guess at that one.
     
  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,572
    43,882
    Apr 27, 2005
    FANTASTIC thread mate. Sure to be controversial and educational with great banter.
     
  4. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

    34,800
    17,886
    Jul 29, 2004
    Sweet...Are you basing Fenech's placing on his performances strictly at bantam or are you using his superbantam form aswell?
     
  5. Mantequilla

    Mantequilla Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,964
    76
    Aug 26, 2004
    FLyweight


    Harada
    Chang
    Perez
    Ohba
    Borkhorsor
     
  6. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    88
    Nov 8, 2004
    Cheers man :good Look forward to the responses to this one.
     
  7. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    88
    Nov 8, 2004
    I must admit Rock, I am extrapolating from higher weight divisions. The biggest question mark for me is Fenech's chin. If he can take the shots of the division's best, he is a chance to push all of them to their limits by virtue of his grit, determination and workrate.

    I'm unsure that he can take the heat from the likes of Jofre, Zarate and Olivares, but I'm kind of assuming that he can here, based largely on his ability to take shots from larger men. I am of course assuming that Nelson was not as ill as is made out and Fenech indeed legitimately beat a Nelson in decent shape (obviously not in the very best of shape though, that is obvious). A win like that bolsters my thinking that Fenech could possibly take the punches of smaller guys, but it's a belief that I could be wrong about.
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,572
    43,882
    Apr 27, 2005
    Out of polite interest SS, where would you have Armstrong at Feather?
     
  9. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    88
    Nov 8, 2004
    I don't think I have anything on film from Armstrong's featherweight days JT. All the fights I have (Arizmendi, Roderick, Ross, Ambers, Garcia) feature Armstrong at 130+.

    Armstrong was just hitting his prime as he was exiting 126, and if he had chosen to remain there I think he would have been a terror and I think he would give all the guys in my top 5 here hell and probably would have come out on top.

    Given the lack of Armstrong footage from his featherweight days and the short prime he enjoyed there I'm inclined not to include him here or rank him at 126.
     
  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,572
    43,882
    Apr 27, 2005
    Ah ok, fair call indeed.
     
  11. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    88
    Nov 8, 2004
    Rock, how do you think Tunney would fair against a Roy Jones or Harold Johnson? Would you favour him in those matchups?
     
  12. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

    34,800
    17,886
    Jul 29, 2004

    Though I havent seen much of Johnson on reflection I would probably put him over Tunney because his lightheavyweight resume is better...And have actually seen more film of Johnson at the weight anyway.

    Roy...Hmmm..I think in the 12 round era Roy could beat just about anyone at middle-light heavy..But in Gene's era I think this would be a pretty close fight as in grinded on into the 13th, 14th and 15th rounds.

    Though Im "extrapolating" a lot from Gene's post lightheavy form. :D

    Im going to be honest I felt confident of my first 3 choices in that list but then just chucked in the last two..Spinks though deserves to be up there IMO but Im more then willing to accept that Tunney might not.
     
  13. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    88
    Nov 8, 2004
    Interesting list. I'd probably have Canto and Ebihara in there instead of Ohba and Borkhorsor, but I haven't seen anything of Venice at flyweight.

    Do you know if Borkhorsor's fight with Betulio Gonzalez is available on film?
     
  14. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    88
    Nov 8, 2004
    I think Tunney, Johnson, Loughran and Jones would all be worthy of filling a spot in the top 5. I don't think much separates them in a head to head basis really. There's not much film of Tunney at 175 (have only seen a short Carpentier clip myself) and so perhaps he might be left off, but even what is available clearly shows his skills, as do the heavyweight bouts available.
     
  15. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

    27,199
    93
    Dec 26, 2007
    Middleweight
    1. Carlos Monzon
    2. Ray Robinson
    3. Roy Jones Jr.
    4. Marvin Hagler
    5. Bernard Hopkins

    Welterweight
    1. Ray Robinson
    2. Ray Leonard
    3. Tommy Hearns
    4. Roberto Duran
    5. Jose Napoles

    Lightweight
    1A. Roberto Duran
    1B. Pernell Whitaker
    3. Carlos Ortiz
    4. Ike Williams
    5. Henry Armstrong