The Top 5 Wins Of This Century

Do you really think that Glen Johnson KO'ing a shot Roy Jones was better than Manny Pacquiao coming from nowhere to stop p4p#3 and great at his peak Marco Antonio Barrera?

Or that Hasim Rahman catching Lennox Lewis with 1 lucky swing was a better win than Shane Mosley stepping up to face Oscar De La Hoya (whose only loss at that time was really a win v Trinidad) and beating him convincingly over 12 hard rounds?

 

You're a strange one McGrain. Sometimes (in fact, often) I am in awe of your knowledge, other times I can't understand your thinking at all.

I can't even be bothered to write a lengthy explanation for why I believe Roy Jones was shot by the time of the Glen Johnson fight, and is utterly shot to pieces now. If you don't agree then a couple of paragraphs from me wouldn't make any difference. I would just say one thing though - think of the difference between the Jones who fought Glen Kelly and Clinton Woods in 2002-3, and the Jones who fought Tarver and Johnson in 2004-5. Unrecognizable IMO.

On the Rahman thing - does 1 punch equate to a great win? By great win as I said in the thread-start, I was considering quality of opposition and quality of performance. IMO, Rahman did not perform exceptionally well throughout that fight, thereby ruling him out of this discussion.

 

If a fighter is at the very top level of the game, pound-for-pound ranked and competing regularly at world title level, THEN drops out of the world title picture and IS NO LONGER CAPABLE of functioning at this level then, in my opinion, he is 'shot'. He used to able to compete at the top level, now he cannot. Holyfield, Trinidad, Vargas - all of these guys are shot IMO.

Roy Jones was scintillating 2002-3. He piled on 20lbs of muscle to fight Ruiz, then he burned it all off again to fight Tarver. In one year. This ****ed with Jones's body in ways he didn't understand. His reflexes, co-ordination, punch resistance, all decimated by this sudden and dramatic gain and loss. I can't give a scientific explanation for this, but I do believe it. I don't think the incredible change in him from Woods & Ruiz to the fights with Tarver can be properly explained solely by age, in less than a year. I believe it is far more conceivable that the changes were down to the damaging effects of ****ing with his own body.

The last 3 times Jones mixed in 'world-class' company (the company he was keeping before the Prince Nobody fight), he lost all 3 times, and was brutally stopped twice. The RJJ of 2002-3 would have won all 3 fights comfortably IMO. Since then, as he progresses through his late 30s, he has fought 2 non-top10ranked lhw's (Hanshaw, who Jones beat on points, was KO'd in 5 by another non-top10ranked lhw in his next fight after Jones), won on points each time, and then came the farce with Tito Trinidad.

Jones fought a 35-year-old natural welterweight at a weight higher than supermiddle, a man wwho hadn't fought in 3 years and hadn't won a fight in 4 years, fighting 10lbs higher than he had ever fought before. That Jones couldn't stop him was shocking to me, absolutely shocking. The fight was fought at the pace of a training match, and both of them looked like they have nothing more to offer as pro boxers.

Jones may have changed his style to suit his age more now, but this was only (slightly) effective because of the DIRE state of the opposition. If he had been in with Tarver, Dawson, Johnson or Calzaghe that night, it would have been complete and utter domination.

RJJ was my choice for closest to an invincible fighter for the way he was at 168. I adored him as a fighter, he's one of my top 5 favourites ever, but he is more shot than Sonny Corleone in Godfather I.



Rahman put up a decent fight against a great champion for 4 rounds, he performed pretty well, but was not in control of the fight by any manner of means. Then in the 5th, he got close to Lennox and swung, a mighty swing, and KO'd the champion. A great punch, a great KO, a great scalp, but IMO, not a great performance at all. Not all that much more impressive than Oliver McCall's KO of Lewis in '94. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

All fair choices I think, except Mayweather-De La Hoya. I think that was one of the worst performances of Mayweather's career. He was not himself at all that night. His defence was good, but he was more lethargic than dynamic, and only did the bare minimum necessary to sneak the victory. Not vintage PBF at all. He was far far better in beating p4p#5 undefeated Diego Corrales in '01.

 

It made my shortlist. I think it would be in my top 10.