The top ten SMW rankings at the moment - good or bad? or about right?

Not a fan of Froch, but he should be higher.

 

Not exactly a great list.
Bika should NEVER be above AA. The top 5 should always consist of Bute-Ward-Froch-Kessler-Abraham, the order in which they should be is debatable though most have Bute & Ward at 1 and 2.
Most boxing fans would put Dirrell somewhere in the top 10 as well. Andrade, Green and Stieglitz are defensible choices, but Gutknecht seems to have been plonked in the top 10 rather randomly.

So: one guy is definitely way too high (Bika), one guy is missing (Dirrell - and I don't like the kid) and the rest is pretty debatable. It's not a very good list, but not the worst we've seen.

 

Ward should never be considered higher than Froch just because he beat Kessler and Miranda. That is just straight up nut huggery!

 

1 Lucian Bute ( best wins 2 x Andrade, Bika, Berrio)

2 Carl Froch ( best wins Taylor, Direll, Pascal, Reid)

3 Andre Ward (best wins Kessler, Miranda)

4 Mikkel Kessler (best wins Andrade, Mundine, Beyer, Lucas)

5 Arthur Abraham (best wins 2x Miranda, Taylor)

6 Taylor (only win at smw is Lacy)

7 Andrade ( best wins Stieglitz , Tsypko)

8 Direll (best win Oganov)

10 Bika (best wins Codrington, Manfredo)

10 Stieglitz (best wins Berrio, Balzay)

 

Froch has the biggest wins

 

bute stopped a very tough guy in zuniga also

 

The ratings are just someones opinion really. Looking at the top 3 and basing things on results,
1. Bute won his title against Berrio, who had been KOd 4 times previously, defended against Joppy who was a MW who had been beaten 4 times previous, Zuniga who had been beaten 3 times and highly rated Andrade who he was very lucky not to have a KO loss to & who had been soundly beaten by Kessler, but he KOd Andrade in a rematch
2. Ward who has a good win over Kessler, rated by most as the #1 when Calzaghe left the division, but most other guys of note on his record had, like Kessler already been exposed by another good fighter at some stage
3. Froch won his vacant world title against undefeated now WBC LHW champ Pascal, defended away to then highly rated Taylor who had been KOd at MW by Pavlik, but lost close to Pavlik at SMW, and defended again against undefeated Dirrell in a fight which could have gone either way, though Boxing News and The Ring both had Froch a close winner in the 2 reports I read on there fight

On the facts of the above id have to say Froch as #1 with wins over undefeated Dirrell and Pascal and a win over Taylor, I think it outweighs Butes wins over Andrade, Zuniga, Berrio, Joppy and Wards wins over Miranda and Kessler.
Id put Bute at #2 and Ward at 3.
I think id also put Abraham at 5 and Bika at 6 but leave the rest as is, but thats just my opinion

 

What's up Fellas!
My top ten at SMW:
1.Froch
2.Bute
3.Ward
4.AA
5.Kessler
6.Bika
7.Stieglitz
8.Direll
9.Green
10.Andrade

 

Top 4 i agree with 100%. Bute and Ward are very close, since Bute defeated Andrade + Bika, while Ward beat Kessler + Miranda. Indeed, Kessler is the better win of the bunch, but overall i agree with Bute being #1. Ward #2 is good, so is Froch #3 and Kessler #4. Then something goes wrong. Bika #5? How is that? Peter Manfredo? Losing against Bute and Calzaghe? What? Abraham should be #5 for me. Andrade is #6 for me, (beating Mack, Stieglitz, Tsypko). Then it gets tricky. Dirrell, Stieglitz, Bika, Green in 7-10, but it's hard to position them.

 

It annoys me the way you spin everything in one direction. I could pretty much say the exact opposite and still not be lying. You need to hit some kind of neutral point. See:

You write: Bute won his title against Berrio, who had been KOd 4 times previously, defended against Joppy who was a MW who had been beaten 4 times previous, Zuniga who had been beaten 3 times and highly rated Andrade who he was very lucky not to have a KO loss to & who had been soundly beaten by Kessler, but he KOd Andrade in a rematch

I could say: Bute defeated the always tough Lolenga Mock (had just beaten Charles Brewer) and the current #5 Sakio Bika before getting his chance and winning against Alejandro Berrio who had brutally knocked out Stieglitz and Mack before the bout. Then he defended against Joppy, a tricky veteran, before defeating Andrade who is regarded to be one of the toughest fighters around and schooled him for 11 rounds. He went on to defend against contender Zuniga before granting a rematch with Andrade, becoming the only guy ever to KO the iron chinned mexican.

I could do the same with your Froch analysis, and spin it from your over positive to a very negative.

When you can spin something in a 100% opposite direction, it is usually very subjective and, well, to use a ESB term, biased.

 

Why? Kessler was #1. Froch has beaten Pascal (best wins at SMW: Omar Pittman?? Kingsley Ikeke?), Jermain Taylor (best win at SMW: Jeff Lacy) & Dirrell (best win: Oganov), in a debatable result.

Ofcourse this is more negative than how i really fell, but i can easily see how one would have Ward over Froch.

 

Ratings are based primarily on accomplishments within the weight class...Let's see how the top guys stack up:

Bute-
Beat Bika and Joppy, and Andrade twice. First to KO Andrade. Is undefeated and a titleholder.

Ward-
Beat Miranda and Kessler. Is undefeated and a titleholder.

Froch-
Beat Dirrell and Pascal, stopped Reid and Taylor. Is undefeated and a titleholder.

Kessler-
Beat Mundine and Andrade; stopped Lucas and Beyer, took Calzaghe the distance.

Bika-
Draw with Beyer, took Calzaghe and Bute the distance, beat Codrington, beat Manfredo Jr.

Abraham-
Stopped Miranda and Taylor. Is undefeated.

Green-
Beat Codrington, took Miranda the distance, beat an undefeated Tarvis Simms.

Andrade-
Took Kessler and Bute the distance. Stopped Steiglitz and Mack.

Steiglitz-
Beat Balzsay, is a titleholder.

Gutknecht-
Beat Balzsay, is undefeated.

Miranda-
Beat Green, took Ward the distance.

Taylor-
Took Pavlik the distance, beat Lacy.

Dirrell-
Took Froch the distance.

 

You could well be right, I only commented on them since winninig world titles, I like Bute alot as a fighter but he was lucky not to have a KO loss against Andrade and Zuniga wasnt a highly rated SMW and nor was Joppy, Berrio has a good KO win over Steiglitz he also has a KO loss to him also. I acknowledged Butes KO win over Andrade also. With Froch I said his fight with undefeated Dirrell could have gone either way, but his win over undefeated Pascal looks more impressive now than before, he also defended away against Taylor and was the 1st fighter to KO him at SMW, not 1st and Froch is defending away again next. But yes Butes win over Bika was a good one but Bute had just been beaten by Calzaghe giving Bute a blueprint on what to do to gain a good victory, but yeah I should have taken that one into account, but with winning titles and defending who resumes do you think is better between Froch and Bute, I would say Frochs.
L Mock you mention may be tough but he had been beaten by M Veit, you could say Froch has a solid KO over B Magee who has just one the European belt against M Larson

 

The thing is, i didn't mean it the way i said it, but i just wanted to show an exact opposite of what you wrote, which should never be possible, if you are being objective.

There is alot of the stuff you just wrote i could criticise, but i don't want to get into a long argument. One example: You make it out like KO'ing Taylor was a huge accomplishment because he hadn't been KO'ed AT SMW. It was his 2nd fight at the weight. It's very questionable how much that is worth, yet the way you say it, it sounds like something special.

 

I see what your saying but he had just beaten an admittedly shot Lacy, but Im saying, to me that win away over Taylor is bigger than a home win over an older shot not far removed from MW Joppy or a KO over Zuniga who was also a MW and not as established as Taylor who was having his 3rd fight at the weight and 7th world title fight and had 2 victories over Hopkins whos still world class. Im not against different opinions just on the points listed see one having a better resume than the other, im not saying one of the fighters is or isnt better than the other, I think there both good for different reasons