The Transnational Boxing Rankings

Perhaps then you should learn how to read because this was *not* the question that was asked.

Again, for the FOURTH time, the question was with respect to Pacquiao's #1 ranking @ 147.

Your shucking and jiving doesn't change this simple FACT.

You've been ducking and dodging this question since I first posed it back on 3/26.

 

Nay_Sayer:

You're close to making what's a fair and important criticism of the Ring and TBRB, but unfortunately you're getting the order of events wrong. Those who recognise Mayweather as current welterweight champion consider the championship to be filled not with Mayweather-Mosley, but with MOSLEY-MARGARITO in 2009.
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/welter.htm

If you look at the records of the top welterweights since Mayweather retired in 2008, Mosley-Margarito is indeed the only fight in which a serious case can be made as involving number 1 and 2. By May 2010 Pacquiao should have been and was considered by almost everyone as higher than Mayweather. Pacquiao had just come off two great wins over Cotto and Clottey, who were surely both top 10. While Mayweather had only fought once in two and a half years, and that against Marquez, a lightweight at the time. It's hard to make a case that Mayweather was higher than number 3 at the time. The rankings on that site you linked to were an exception to have Mayweather above Mosley, and can't be used for Pac's ranking because they're from February, and wouldn't have included his win over Clottey.

It's the welterweight rankings in January 2009 that are much more contentious, and the key to the fatal flaw of the Ring and TBRB championships. Many considered Margarito and Mosley 1 and 2, but the Ring had Margarito and Cotto 1 and 2, so didn't consider Mosley-Margarito for the vacant championship. This piece of Cliff Rold's covers the debate about rankings at the time well, and shows how controversial the decision of the Ring's was.
http://www.***********.com/margarito-mosley-welterweight-crown---17891

Margarito pretty clearly moved to number 1 when he beat Cotto, but the issue is whether Cotto should have been number 2, or should have moved further down and below Mosley. The thing is, if rankings are merely opinion-polls like the Ring or TBRB's, there will always be cases when number 2 and 3 are so close that deciding who can compete for a vacant championshp becomes arbitrary. If this is how rankings are made there therefore will never be clarity or consensus about lineal championships. Determining who can compete for a championship needs to be based on QUANTIFIABLE, widely accepted rankings.

I completely agree with you that the Ring should not be taken as some great historical authority on championships before 2012. The Ring's rankings, being subjective opinion have always been fallible and open to bias and manipulation, and in fact have been manipulated, with an egregious case being when they aligned themselves with Don King so he could promote Ring ranked fighters..
http://theboxingtribune.com/2011/03/revisiting-the-ring-magazine-scandal/

 

Apparently Bscene links aren't allowed, but google it, it's a good one.

 

No question. There's a perfectly reasonable argument to be made that Mosley established a new lineage @ 147 with his victory over Margarito.

Again, everything you say is perfectly reasonable and I wouldn't argue against it.

Again, all perfectly reasonable. My main point of contention is ranking Pacquiao #1 @ 147 for having beat de la Hoya and Cotto. That **** doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever and I can't take anyone seriously who would defend such a ridiculous ranking...

 

Again, all perfectly reasonable. My main point of contention is ranking Pacquiao #1 @ 147 for having beat de la Hoya and Cotto. That **** doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever and I can't take anyone seriously who would defend such a ridiculous ranking...[/quote]

I'm a Pacquiao critic and think he was often carefully matched as he moved up in weight... but Cotto was an outstanding win over a true welterweight still in his prime and had to be highly regarded in rankings. If Mosley WASN'T already champion, it's pretty obvious that Pac, Mosley, Mayweather were top 3 in early 2010 based on fairly recent welterweight accomplishments. De la Hoya, Cotto, and Clottey were greater than Mosley's 2-1 record at 147 since 2005, and Mayweather's mere two wins in 2006 against legit welterweights at 147 in the same period.

 

Of course Pacquiao's ranking is irrelevant if Mosley was already champion when he fought Mayweather.

 

mike tyson i love you.

 

If Kazuto Ioka wins on May 7, will he enter the P4P rankings? He'll have been a three division champion in only 15 fights.

Also, Naoya Inoue beat Adrian Hernandez today. Hernandez was ranked #1 in the junior flyweight division. Don't forget to mention that this was only Inoue's 6th professional fight.

 

VG-Addict! You're a good poster! Where's your head?

"Three-division champion" says who?

Ioka has never defeated a true champion and has never won a #1 vs. 2 match-up for a vacant throne. Let's step out of the make-pretend world of fake ratings and trick titles and look at boxing like serious men.

 

Gonzale, Ioka, Inoue surely more impressive than the Old 4 Hasbeens :dead