The truth of The War.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SeanK, Apr 4, 2019.


  1. SeanK

    SeanK Member Full Member

    177
    222
    Apr 3, 2019
    Lately I have been thinking of the legendary 1985 bout between Hagler and Hearns.

    I understand and I agree with it’s status as one of the most entertaining fights ever, but shouldn’t it be acknowledged that choosing to fight that way at all was a massive blunder on Hearns’ part?

    He was never going to win a brawl with Hagler. Ever. Even with the advantage of carrying the most dangerous punch of the fight in his right hand, everyone on his team should’ve known that wasn’t how he was going to win.

    I don’t think there’s a middleweight in history who could beat Hagler (At least not consistently) with the strategy of just trading bombs until one of them collapsed. Hearns is a legend and he fought his heart out, but he should’ve kept his distance and scored with the jab, right?

    I don’t really understand the exact purpose of this, but I believe it would lead to some interesting discussion. I love the fight, but shouldn’t great fights be decided more on the razors edge?
    I know Hearns had his moments, but the second it turned into a brawl everyone should’ve known Hagler would likely prevail.

    So am I off with this or what?
     
    Cecil, mrkoolkevin and Birmingham like this.
  2. 88Chris05

    88Chris05 Active Member Full Member

    1,394
    3,224
    Aug 20, 2013
    Well there's truth in what you say, but obviously we've got the benefit of hindsight. Going in to the fight, Hearns fighting that way would certainly have been seen as a risk - it's only in retrospect that we know it was actually suicidal.

    Everyone knew beforehand that Hagler had a damn good chin - but it was the Hearns and Mugabi fights more than any others which made it plain that he had an all-time great chin. You can understand why so many were convinced by the idea that Hearns could lay Hagler out, especially given how he'd dealt with Duran after Roberto had taken Hagler the full distance. Spectacular knockouts can make a guy look indomitable.

    Similarly, at that time Hearns' only stoppage defeat (well, only defeat at all) was in the fourteenth round of a classic championship fight in which he was stopped in part through exhaustion, rather than simply wilting in the face of heavy artillery. While it was dangerous, it probably didn't automatically tally in everyone's mind that Hearns brawling with Hagler = Hearns getting knocked out by Hagler. But then we all saw Hearns get stopped in three, and subsequently get flattened by Barkley and have to hang on for dear life against Kinchen etc. We then overcompensate and tell ourselves that the outcome was a lot easier to predict than it actually was.

    So I guess my point is, Hearns did fight the wrong fight, but it wasn't so blindingly obvious that he was doing so at that time. Truth be told, Hearns was an impulsive, often naïve fighter and I think even if he'd looked to use his jab, reach and speed, he'd have come a-cropper against Hagler eventually. For all his immense physical gifts, Tommy just didn't have it between the ears and it's the only reason he's not genuinely considered one of the greatest fighters of all time.
     
    escudo, Cecil, The Morlocks and 3 others like this.
  3. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    9,075
    6,786
    Jan 13, 2017
    No your right, yo don't fight fire with fire with a stronger tougher man. I think it was a "go for it" kind of situation, even he knew he couldn't win its saying to me...Didn't he break his right hand ?? He imo did try to box and slow it down a bit, but Hagler kept the high tempo and forced him, and Hearn's was already looking weakened before the finish
     
    ETM, The Morlocks and SeanK like this.
  4. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,800
    11,425
    Aug 22, 2004

    You bring up some good points here, but context of the times are important to remember too. Sure, Hagler's chin was pretty much already certified by 1985, but so was Duran's, you know? Nobody thought Hearns could do what he did against Duran. He and his corner might have gotten caught up in the renewed faith in his almighty right hand, and they could hardly be blamed.

    Additionally, I don't know that Hearns could have done much to keep Hagler off him for very long simply by boxing. Hagler was walking right in on him (or running right in on him) and getting up in his grill. You can't just create distance out of nothing when you have a pit bull on your azz like that. THAT, coupled with the early success he had dropping the right in on Hagler, compounded by the fact that his legs were a little rubbery after the first round and any slick movement was going to be compromised anyway, meant that in effect Hearns rolled the dice and lost, simple as that. He went out on his shield, having gambled it all, probably realizing he wasn't going to win a war of attrition. I don't think that was ever part of his gameplan.
     
    Cecil, Clinton, The Morlocks and 2 others like this.
  5. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    9,075
    6,786
    Jan 13, 2017
    What a war...Took a lot out of Marvin at that stage of his career, Leonard must've been licking his lips.
     
    redrooster likes this.
  6. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    9,075
    6,786
    Jan 13, 2017
    I don't either, I think he got in with Hagler and it dawned on him right there and then that he was in deep and went for it
     
    The Morlocks likes this.
  7. SeanK

    SeanK Member Full Member

    177
    222
    Apr 3, 2019
    I think you bring up some good points about hindsight, and I think I would have to agree that there wasn’t much Hearns could’ve done that night to win. He might’ve just been outclassed.
     
  8. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

    5,519
    7,071
    Aug 17, 2011
    Hearns didn't have anything to do with how that fight played out. Hagler had a fight plan and he imposed his will on Hearns.
     
  9. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

    3,201
    3,373
    Nov 22, 2012
    Why did your other account get booted George?
     
    JohnThomas1 and surfinghb like this.
  10. SeanK

    SeanK Member Full Member

    177
    222
    Apr 3, 2019
    From what I saw, Hearns seemed happy to trade blows and that definitely contributed to him getting slept. He could’ve tried to stay away more and use his jab, but I think your right that Hagler simply would’ve won either way.
     
    greynotsoold likes this.
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,595
    27,267
    Feb 15, 2006
    Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

    Hearns might have been seen to have certain stylistic advantages, and their respective results against Duran would have been hard to overlook.
     
  12. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,635
    332
    Jan 29, 2005
    Hearns intially boxed until Marvin ran in on him. Tommy only slugged for 30+ seconds of the bout before he want back to boxing.

    Got trapped in a corner then came off only to be sent back on the ropes before coming off for the rounds last 20 seconds or so

    spent all of round two boxing again. round thee was a continuation of the first two until that final murderous right
     
  13. Rope-a-Dope

    Rope-a-Dope Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,138
    7,974
    Jan 20, 2015
    Hearns made a mistake that he couldn't have foreseen. Hagler was known to have a great chin, but regardless who would have thought he, or anyone else, could have survived that first round onslaught? Hearns hit him with several punches that would have floored nearly anyone and at least one punch that I'm not sure ANY other middleweight ever could have remained standing after.
     
    Clinton likes this.
  14. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,237
    6,500
    Jan 22, 2009
    Finally. Thank you. This is absolutely the best post I have ever read about that fight.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  15. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,237
    6,500
    Jan 22, 2009
    I believe Lenny was biding his time and licking his lips when he saw how old and slow Marv looked against inferior boxers like Roldan and Mugabi.
     
    Birmingham likes this.