The two Jack's title runs ( Johnson and Dempsey ). Top 10 opponents beaten.

"Who says Langford was the best contender to Johnson for 5 years ,which expert claims this, and which 5 years? - Mcvey "

From 1909 to 1914 ( 6 years ) , who was the #1 contender for Johnson? Langford clearly. Langford often won more convincingly than Johnson did vs. the same competition faced, some of who received title shots from Johnson.

From 1909 to 1914, Sam Langford had 78 fights. No one stopped him; he did lose a decision or two, some of which are disputed but won the series vs Sam McVey, and Joe Jeanette in the time line. Langford's activity here, and quality of competition faced and beaten dwarf's Jack Johnson's. Its not even close.

From 1909-1914, Langford has wins over the following fighters, the best of whom were in their prime.

Wills- KO
Smith KO - ( Smith TKO's Johnson in a 4 round edition match in 1909 )
Battling Jim Johnson - ( Johnson drew with Battling Jim, lucky it was only a ten round fight )
Jeannette
McVey -KO
O'Brien KO ( O'Brien drew with Johnson in Johnson's prime )
Ross - KO ( Johnson took Ross the distance and was hurt by one of the few solid punches he landed )
Clark
Ketchel
Flynn - KO
Haynes KO ( Haynes KO'd Johnson earlier )
Kubiak -KO ( Johnson took the same guy the distance )

 

Excuses!

Pulling out of a signed deal to meet Langford, Johnson is guilty here. I've shown you several offers in the press by known promoters. What you will never admit is Johnson always had some reason or excuse it never happened, some of which were his fault. Johnson's manager called him shady. Jack loved making money why not fight a bit more in other areas of the world?

The three best white fighters from 1909-1915 were Willard, McCarty, and Smith. Johnson is 0-1 here, 0-2 if you add Gunboat Smith stopping him in 4 round ex-match. While McCarty did not live long enough, I have doubt that Johnson would have faced him in 1912-1914 as McCarthy was about to enter his prime and Johnson was exiting his.

Johnson didn't fight the best white fighters at all while champion, he often picked on shorter less skilled guys ( Ross, or Flynn ) and had trouble with super middleweight types in Ketchel who knocked him down and O'Brien who according to some primary sources was better. This is a heavyweight champion we are talking about here....

Ross winner in 1 of his last 8 fights hurt Johnson and he hardly landed. Yikes. And Flynn was DQ'd, but fresh according to many at ringside who also felt Johnson was trying and doing too much clinching.

The two big guys Johnson fought gave him trouble Johnson drew with Battling Jim Johnson and was lucky it was only ten as he was nearly out at the final bell and of course he was stopped by Willard.

He beat an older champion out of the game for six years who was overweight and had drinking issues, and barely edged Moran if you see the watch the existing film.

Of Course, Smith beat Willard and Moran, who received title shots from Johnson. I guess he was too good of a white hope for a while.

Clay can have his own opinion. The Langford I saw pound the heck out of Jeannette was better than any Johnson I saw on film.

Langford hit harder, had the better chin, was equally as skill in attack and threw way more punches. Clay would agree with that. The question is could Johnson clinch and wear him down. I doubt it. If Johnson could not stop Sam in 15 rounds when he was 20 ( Using Clay's words ) and an estimated 156 pounds, he's not stopping him in his prime either.

What would Johnson do with a 175-190 pound Langford? Lose I say; he's not our working or out slugging. Sam was very clever in the ring too. I'd take Langford from 1911-1914 and based how Johnson struggled in 1909 too.

 

Langford beat a washed up version of Haynes. -Mcvey

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O Brien did not draw with Johnson it was a NO DECISION 6 rounder. - Mcvey

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Langford drew with Battling Jim and unlike Johnson he wasn't hampered by a broken arm! Langford did not beat Ketchel it was a no decision bout. - McVey

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Langford also lost to Jeannette ,McVey and Smith in this timeline,drew with Battling Jim, and drew with Colin Bell. - Mcvey

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Johnson toyed with Ross, I have the round by round reports.

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Smith did not tko Johnson at any time in his career, they never fought, for once and for all, will you stop spreading this palpable nonsense!

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Yes and No. The Smith win is debatable, but from 1909-1914, I can't see Langford rated any lower than #3, and most of the time he would be rated #1. We pretty much agree, but with 78 fights, I don't think one loss via points, would make Langford tumble down in the Ring Magazine Rankings

Anyway you slice it, Johnson from 1909-1914 did not face the top four best which in my opinion were Langford. Jeanette, McVey or Smith.

Imagine if Ali had a few losses before becoming champion and beat a 5'7"168-pound man for the title. As champion, he avoided Frazier, Norton, Lyle, and Foreman. During the title defenses, he was floored by a middle and apparently out boxed by another middle in a six-round match. His biggest fight was vs. Ingo Johansson, coming out of retirement after a six-year layoff, and ultimately and lost his title to say, Gerry Cooney.

How would history view him?