Dempsey has been knocked out in a round, marciano has been down to 2 fighters within a round. What makes you think that a much bigger, harder hitting, more skilled, faster, better finnisher of a fighter in Tyson wouldnt take advantage of this? I was embellishing a bit with that post but no way any of those men make it past the half way point against a Tyson on his game, except maybe Johnson if he continually holds and spoils thus stopping the action
Thats a great post, i'd have Holmes on the 'above Tyson' list and maybe bump Lewis down a few places .. Holmes was weathered when he fought Tyson, reflexes had slowed, not as smooth as he once was .. Tyson would have had some real trouble with the Holmes of late 70s early 80s .. Lewis did beat Tyson as he beat Holyfield but what kind of state were these guys in when he fought them, nowere near their respective best .. Tyson in particular looked like a stereotypical 'shot' fighter against Lewis, coming out in the first round, throwing wild shots with energy but then just walking forward trying to somehow recapture what he once had but realising that it had left him long ago .. Tyson's appeal lays in the visceral, aggressive nature of his style and the way he used to bomb out his opponents with crisp, flamboyant combination punches .. In reality he could get beat by any number of top heavyweights, any puncher from Frazier, Marciano, Liston, Dempsey, Louis and Foreman could connect with a shot and he'd be in serious trouble. I'd probably favour Tyson over Dempsey simply because Dempsey looped his shots and could be open but that would be a hell of a fight while it lasted. The key to fighting Tyson is resistance and courage .. If your scared like Spinks and many of his opponents then you will be KO'd in the first round but the top guys would not be scared of him, they'd have their own gameplans and real belief in themselves .. Ali, Holmes and Johnson would all out-box him for me ..... Tyson appeals to casual fans simply because casual fans will never appreciate the more subtle facets of boxing, casual fans want dramatic knockouts and Tyson was a man who delivered, its the same with Dempsey .... If we are analysing fighters that are over-rated then for me, the focus must turn to Lennox Lewis ..
Tyson had the makings of an ATG. He certainly acheived phenominal performances and feats of fistic greatness on film. The trouble with tyson is even though he knocked out pinklon thomas and larry holmes a year or so after both were considered the worlds best - and neither had been kod before (surly a mark of a great champ) for what ever reason the rest of the time Tyson's "A game" was present against lesser foes and absent against Douglas,Lewis and Hollyfield. Tyson maintained his full potential when things went his way in a fight but lost focus when things got hard and that is what holds him back. He was a great fighter. The myth is the record proves he could not necasarily duplicate his best efforts with lesser foes against another great fighter. He never shone In a hard fight.
You make a good point. But for some of these matchups I think it's a styles thing. Maybe 1 round is too much to ask for but an early KO isn't.
This post is an absolute knock out. Well done. We all know Tyson had great speed and skills, but those who had the resolve to stand up to him ( ATG are often high on resolve ) beat Tyson. I'd pick Tyson over most old timers, but not all, and never in round one.
You're missing my point though. A KO 1 is always possible between 2 fighters, especially big punching heavyweights. But these jokers are trying to claim it's the *expected* outcome i.e. >50% likely. By the way I'm not a Tyson hater, I think under Rooney when he had the discipline, he was a great fighter with the potential to KO any ATG - I just think it's ludicrous to say it would *definitely* happen, and especially silly to say that a first round KO is the expected outcome.
Simple - if Tillis, Green, Smith and Biggs can go the distance, then those other fighters can too. If bums can last 4-6 rounds, then ATGs can last longer. Yes, Mike has the power to finish even ATG fighters with good chins, but as we see from his early career, great power and punching ability doesn't automatically mean you KO everyone you face. The record shows that prime Tyson didn't KO even all of the contenders he faced, and it shows that the ATGs rarely got stopped and almost never in the first round.
Except boxing doesnt work like that, Tillis, Green, Biggs and Smith all came to hold/spoil/survive/run and were bigger stronger men for the most part. Marciano/Dempsey came to win not run but fight toe to toe, would take more chances and consequently would get hit far more and would be easier to KO fast. Tyson rarely fought smaller men and when he faced 1 in Spinks it was a quick destruction, Spinks incidently has a better win in Holmes than Dempsey ever managed and arguably better than any win of Marciano and Johnson
Another point on Tyson is he was not a good KO artist late in fights. Aside from TKO win late in the 10th round vs Rabilta before he became champion, if a fighter got past round 8, he went the distance and lost the decision, or TKO'd Tyson before the final bell. I have watched almost all of Tyson's fights. He seems to lose energy, ring generalship and heart in the later rounds, and you can see a drop of in activity from Tyson from the 6th round to finish.
Its less one round than early blow outs and it is based on size and match up advantages in specific stylistic match ups that quality of opposition ... The early blow outs of small Mavis Frazier and Michael Spinks add to this ... The point is that the 220 pound, lighting fast punching and starting, murderous hitting Tyson would be an irresistable force against many truly great but smaller fighters. Comparing his efforts against much bigger men is not relevant. That Tyson, the man that dominated Berbick, Bonecrusher, Thomas, Tucker, Briggs, Holmes, ubbs and Spinks was an exceptional, unique fighter who possessed exceptional challenges for many from a stylistic standpoint.
first off all i am NOT saying tyson knocks any of the atg out in one round. but.... some off the guys you mentioned like marciano and frazier have not a great chance stylewise against tyson. and if foreman can beat frazier in 2 why tyson not in 1 ? mike was almost as powerfull as george but much faster, more explosive and his punches where more accurate.
As a fan since 1963-1964...all I heard and read in the boxing magazines..(prior to 1990) was that Tyson would DESTROY Marciano...walk through Joe Louis...Ali would fall in 3 rounds....Dempsey doesn't stand a chance....etc...I used to tell people..."let's wait and see what happens when Tyson is in a real fight...let's see what happens when he has to get off the floor and has to come back and win..as all great champs have done....and as we have seen....Tyson couldn't do that...