The weakest heavyweight division ever?

Did you just refer to Norton as a 'Can'?

 

So your point of backing up shavers was misplaced in your statement. I am not going to sit here and say Wlad has a great chin he doesnt. Shavers could very well knock wlad out. But, given todays safety first Wlad the most likely outcome would be Wlad winning every rd, breakign shavers down and stopping him. Hell even Wlad could knock shavers out cold, not like shavers chin was any better than wlads.

What I am comparing between these guys is not them H2H I am comapring their resumes and eras and IMO when Wlad is said and done you will be able to make the argument that not only will Wlad's era be better, but Wlad will likely build a better all time reign than Holmes, we will see how it plays out.

 

No, it was a comment on Shavers resume. Norton just got canned that night .

 

And who can forget Foreman vs an over-the-hill light heavyweight.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC629JS-Zp4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC629JS-Zp4[/ame]

 

:good

 

The sad fact is, that for some people, the rose tinted glasses will never come off when looking at the past.

For them, every fighter from the past is better than fighters from today. Every past era is better than today's era.

When you couple that with an obvious agenda, you get threads like this.

 

I agree with that 100%. here are some guys from the 60's and 70's who could easily reign as champ now. Doug Jones, Eddie Machen, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Ingemar Johanson, Ken Norton, Oscar Bonavena, George Chuvalo. Greg Page and Archie Moore up til 1961 pre Ali fight!

 

Holmes beat ATG heavyweights like Ali and Norten, Wlad don't even have a future hall of famer on his resume. Holmes went 48-0 before losing, Wlad lost early in his career to a journeyman in Purrity. Holmes was only knocked out once to the great Mike Tyson. Wlad was TKO'd s 3 times to less than stellar competition. Wlad's reign is currently at 5 years in april, since that's when he beat Bryd for the title back in 06. I believe Holmes lasted 7 years til 85 I believe.

Holmes will always be ahead of Wlad in my book. Wlad's losses are just too hard to forget. 2 of which were around his prime, both being against weak competition.

 

Lets be serious one minute here..you are reaching for **** now. Ali does not count on Holmes record, Ali was suffering from pugilistica dementia by that time. If Wlad today, would beat Holyfield and Tyson it would be more meaningful than the Holmes/Ali win thats how meaningless that win was. The fact is Norton is likely the best win on Holmes record and Norton took Holmes to limit in that fight.

Homles has a lot of cans on his record even as champ. Wlad has less cans on his record since his reign began post brewster.

Also I want to point out that Wlad was not in his prime when he lost to Purity. Wlads prime started about 2006-2007 to present. he likely has 2-4 more years in his prime. He has been a late bloomer with his adapted safety first style.

 

Phew, you got me worried there!

 

I thought you refered to him in a group of flawed HW's.

 

Right!:good Ellis was great!!!

http://www.youtybe.com/watch?v=jod2sRsAudE&feature=related

 

Well man that just means you haven't looked at too many older fights. Today's HW is one the most fat outtta shape atheletes in the history of sports. Look at a match like Young Stribling vs Max Schmeling or even like Ali vs Patterson. Liston vs Machen. These were some of the most awesomely well conditioned atheletes in the world who'd come out and throw punches for 15 rounds. All these guys had little or no body fat and possesed fundamental boxing skill that just doesn't exist today in that division.None of these scrubs today could even dream of competing on that level. If you think so, you just don't know boxing. Today's HW is the most inefficient, softest HW in history. And, they throw less punches than any other era of HW's ever. It's real tough to watch HW's these days. Oh and by the way Vitali is the more dangerous fighter even at his age. And he couldn't have begun to be anything more than top 12 in the 1960's after they stripped Ali of his license.

 

This current crop of heavyweights is underwhelming. And I have mutual friends with Arreola. It's worse than when Holmes was champ (I was a kid then) by far.

Also, if a division is weak, the champion should have a defining characteristic. Holmes -- best jab. Marciano -- retired undefeated, relentless brawler. Wlad -- nothing. I can't think of one thing I will tell my nephews about Wlad other than he was boring.

 

I agree. Stop looking at records, and worrying about justifying ****. Just watch them fight.

Then watch fights from that past, and notice the difference.

As somebody else said, the main difference/problem now is the top 10/20 guys simply don't fight each other. They're all too worried about losing (and maybe us fans worry too much about it too), so rack up long winning streaks against **** fighters. This means when they do get to a tough fight, or have to fight somebody will skills and heart, they're totally unprepared for it.

they don't have a Plan B, or have to work out different styles, different problems, because they don't get them. They're spoon fed gimme fights.

It's not that long ago those fights were still made.

You'd never, ever get a Tua-Ike fight made today. 2 young, undefeated fighters that can really crack going up against each other.

Which is madness. Because even though Tua lost, really, it did more good than harm for his career.