the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Meh. Gimme' Borkorsor Vs Betulio any day of the week

 

Yeah both of 'em are about
Funnily enough I've never backed up my Arguello discs so not sure what I have at the mo', need to get round to that!

 

I've tried a couple of times to score Harada-Medel II and never managed it with my one track mind, excellent fight though it is. I'm **** at scoring fights in general tbh and really don't envy judges.

Nonetheless, I've just re-watched it and managed to create a passable scorecard that I'm still not satisfied with. The point deduction always seemed a bit gash to me, though it isn't easy to tell by the footage, so being highly biased as I am, I've copied the AP and not included it on my final card. :verysad

Anyway, 144-143, in favour of Harada, though I could see it wider in his favour. Maybe even a draw or a one point swing the other way to Medel without the deduction, but something tells me I might be conning myself a tiny bit somewhere in the back of my mind. It was very hard to score and a lot of the rounds were close. Harada fought cleverer than first time without compromising his work rate and outworked Medel a lot of the time, even against the ropes where Medel was so dangerous. Medel though didn't help himself at times spending too much time trying to set traps and not punching. Still, he had a lot of success and blocked/parried a good bit of Harada's work. Hurt him on a few occasions too, but probably didn't get quite get enough going on a consistent basis. Might have been interesting to see if he'd hurt Harada earlier than what he did in the last round.

Harada: 3,5,6,8,11,12,13
Medel: 1,2,9,10,14,15
Even: 4 & 7

Great fight though.

 

I guess I need to rescore as I remember Harada winning pretty comfortably (in terms of rounds of course)

 

I wouldn't use my card as any kind of barometer mate. Some of the rounds that I gave to Medel probably could've gone Harada's way, and Harada won a slightly greater number of his rounds by a bigger margin.

Don't make me doubt myself either, ****s sake. I had to watch some of those rounds more than once and it still took me ****ing ages to come up with a card that I still don't like.

 

Rudders had it close as well.

 

That is something like I scored it, don't remember who I gave which rounds. From memory one of them was deducted a point as well, can't remember who. Also I think the commentary team were posting their scores as well.
I'll see if I can dig my scorecard out.

 

Anyone seen the Zarate-Zaragoza fight, how did he look in that? The second battle of the Z men!

 

Yeah, Medel had a point taken off in the 10th for supposedly thumbing Harada in the eye that had been cut earlier on. That's what I was on about mate. It looked like rubbish to me, but it's hard to tell; Harada has his back to the camera and they're in a bit of a tangle. Medel's manager surprisingly didn't have too much of a problem with the decision, but he was quite hacked off with the deduction.

 

I thought he nearly had him in the 15th! I can't work Medel out looking at some of the fights he lost, possibly more to it specially the on the road fights. Hope he got payed well for them.

 

Aye, I thought he had too. If it'd happened maybe a minute earlier.....

There were a couple of times too where I thought he really hurt Harada but didn't quite follow up urgently enough.

I get the feeling like you say that there might be a lot more to plenty of his losses. There were times when he could be too patient and coast with a journeyman attitude to upset losses, and there's the constant high level of comp, but I'd be willing to wager that a fair old whack of his losses were blatant hometown decisions, or at least controversial ones. There's definitely a bit of a pattern with the losses. And the ones where he was either a baby or past it in a sea full of great whites.

The Olympic Auditorium it seems was a horrible hunting ground for him, and the same judges there seem to have routinely scored fights against him: Mushy Callahan, Dick Young, Lee Grossman etc.

From the loss to Boots Monroe in '59 up to losing to Harada in '67, he has something like 33 wins and 7 defeats. Two of them to Jofre, one of which he was on the brink of winning before walking into a monster left hook. One and a draw (avenged) against Barrios in Ciudad Juarez, who won a lot of decisions there. One away against Asis in Manila, again avenged. Of the three back to back losses against Danny Kid, Pina and Sanchez, I vaguely remember hearing that the Kid defeat in L.A for the North American title was controversial, but I can't really back it up. He beat them all in rematches on different turf iirc.

He beat a lot of good fighters on their own patches, so you wouldn't think he had too much trouble fighting away from home. It's hard to know for sure unless some good reports/sources crop up. He was pre-prime for the Becerra fights as far as I can tell, and Becerra was probably Mexico's most popular fight in the post-Raton days, so it's hard to see him getting the benefit of the doubt there if the fights were close. I'd definitely like to know more about them.

Not to sound like I'm making excuses or owt, but like I say, I think there's a lot more to his record than what meets the eye. And maybe his standing would be a lot higher than what it is outside of a very small minority if more stuff came to light.

Or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

 

I'd like to see more of him, some those fights in Japan must of been televised.

 

Just finished Marcel-Arguello. The version recently posted here has what appears to be 13 rounds of it, which is good enough to get a nice take on it.

Here's the card I hard for the 13 scorable rounds I saw. I think it starts with the second round, and then one other is missing somewhere along the line. Not sure which, so I can't really say who took which rounds. I'm assigning scores to the rounds in the order they appear in the version here.

Arguello: 1,6,7,8,9
Marcel: 2,3,4,5,10,11,12,13

Odd bout in that it seemed very evenly divided into segments that belonged very clearly to one or the other. Arguello surges in the middle rounds, and Marcel does well to hang in there and rally strongly over the final five. Arguello is very well schooled even here at this young age, always following up the one-two with a solid hook behind it, and working that savage uppercut he was so known for. The battering Marcel took to the body had to stay with him for some time, looked brutal. Massive credit to him for coming on late in spite of it.

He found a home early for the lead right, and while his performance was in some ways more uneven and herky-jerky than the more classical approach favored by Arguello here, I thought it was a well-deserved decision. Not a one-sided blowout by any means, in fact I thought it was fairly close. Would have been interesting to see how those other two rounds went, but big thanks to Flea for posting that one up! I'd been looking for it for some time.

 

Yeah, more or less the same way I had it (scored the last couple rounds for Marcel btw). The fight seems quite evenly divided into three parts, with Marcel owning the book-ends and Arguello the middle chapters.

Marcel's durability to withstand the Duran and Arguello barrages stands him in good stead when considering head-to-head match ups with other elite featherweight bruisers like Armstrong, Saldivar and Saddler.

I think Marcel would hang with those guys in the trenches just well enough to stay functional in the latter thirds of those contests without being overwhelmed.

Still don't know if he'd beat them, but he wouldn't get run over imo, all the same.

Sal, any thoughts of how you think Marcel would do against some of the featherweight greats? Your man, Sanchez, for instance?

 

Hmm. Wow. I think stylistically he's all wrong for Sanchez; too much herky-jerky-weird-lead-rights-odd-head-movement type fighting to make a classic stylist comfortable. You then factor in that obvious durability he has and he's just a total nightmare. I would say though, that a more polished, more confident version of Arguello gets him if they fight again. He had the power and killer instinct to do it. I also think a tough swarmer like Armstrong puts him on the back foot enough to control things. Pep? I haven't seen too much prime Pep, not too comfortable picking there.

Marcel and Pedroza would have been really interesting.