the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

    38,034
    91
    Nov 10, 2008
    Really sum him up well there McGrain, excellant article.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,110
    48,335
    Mar 21, 2007
    Appreciate it. You handed anything in lately?
     
  3. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

    38,034
    91
    Nov 10, 2008
    Nah, had exams lately so not had time to type anything up. Last one I did was the Mosley vs Mayweather one, did you see that one? Also done a review on Hasegawa vs Montiel.

    Got afew in the pipe though.

    Anyway just sat down and watched some Gonzalez, heres my take on beating him. As you say you have to move your body and make him miss alot, but you have to do this to keep him off-balance, as you said in your article his balance wasnt his best attribute and it has improved but it is still a weakness IMO.

    But you have to watch as Gonzalez moves to long range his straight right becomes a very potent weapon, so I could see a southpaw suffering here if they circled the wrong way. Not sure Joyi could do it though as he has showed the tools of being able to box at long range and move, he just has never really applied them in a fight to any real extent, so he would really have to pull it out on the night.

    I have afew more observations on Gonzalez, but I'm away to get a steak cooked for me, so will be back later. EDIT this sounds very pretentious, me getting a steak is a massive event thats why I'm saying it.

    Actually have to wait afew mins so I'll fire away.

    - I really loved the way Gonzalez could slip into what ever range was needed, he would have a guy against the ropes slide inside to land the body shots then come back to long range to get some leverage into the bigger shots to knock him out, as his footwork improved this got better. Also as said earlier his right hand was brilliant from range especially when he threw it off a left hook to the body on the inside.

    - He is a sharp puncher. He has quite fast hands and is very accurate hence why he ctahces guys and drops them. I do think he lacks real destructive power, that is why after dropping a guy he can sometimes not finish him off due to not having the power.

    - I really love the right uppercut to the body as he steps in with his right hand under the elbow of his opponent, a Napoles-esque shot/

    - I cant help but think Gonzalez is like a mini Chavez. He slowly breaks down guys behind a nice jab, decent guard, likes to bput the pressure on get inside and work the body etc... But also has very good countershots and a nice defence, like Chavez.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,110
    48,335
    Mar 21, 2007
    :lol:
     
  5. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

    38,034
    91
    Nov 10, 2008
    Its not coming till 4.30 now. I literally cant wait.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,110
    48,335
    Mar 21, 2007
    Yoko Gushiken SD15 Jame Rios.

    How this is split is beyond me. The card in favour of Rios has to be one of the worst i've ever seen.

    Gushiken's first defence of his WBA light-fly strap starts promisingly enough, with a mobile, flashy Rios firing out quick straight shots from a bouncing high energy platform that earned him the second round on my card. In the third, he flashed Gushiken, ditching him for a three count with a lightning quick counter-shot form underneath, where he lurked throughout, being two inches shorter, and often fighting out of a dipping, crouching style laced with persistent bounding left-right movement. Gushiken pressures his way back in in the fourgh and it's Rios who eneds up in trouble. Gushiken starts to throw his uppercut to the gut, and at this point the fight is basically over as a contest. Gushiken dominates with this punch for the next few rounds, going to the belly repeatedly, and Rios has all the energy and legs just sapped out of him. What started off as an exciting and challanging style that saw him ahead on my card until the end of the fifth, he's forced into the trenches for at least a spot in every round thereafter. The best I could do was give him a share of the eleventh, when he briefly reclaimed that high-octane style for the first 90 seconds.

    Gushiken was cut in the fifth though, and it's not like Rios was entirely without his successes thereafter, but it was always, always Gushiken landing the harder punches and in variety, hook, straight, uppercuts, and most of all that uppercut to the body. A cuople of times, I think in 7 and 8, Rios was establishing himself and then he would ship those uppercuts and that would be that, no startch.

    The 12th is especially painful to watch and I always kind of wish this was a 12 round fight, because there is not much of interest hereafter. Rios is done.

    Destrcutive performance from Gushiken is the only reason to revisit this one.


    Gushiken: 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15

    Rios: 2, 3(with a knockdown)

    Even: 11
     
  7. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,744
    78
    Apr 4, 2010
    Gonzalez is far too plodding IMO. Calderon is on the wane, but at his best I'd pick him to out-maneuver him for a close decision win, and I don't think too highly of Ivan. Joyi isn't any better. Sound technically, but highly unspectacular or standout in any area.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,110
    48,335
    Mar 21, 2007
    "Plodding" doesn't fit for Gonzalez at all, unless Gushiken is plodding also. Gonzalez delivers more variety in his leads, too.
     
  9. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

    10,305
    544
    Feb 17, 2010
    Gushiken would have reamed him.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,110
    48,335
    Mar 21, 2007
    Well i'll wait until we've seen him box the top men at 108 before making that judgement. Should that ever happen...
     
  11. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

    10,305
    544
    Feb 17, 2010
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdZq79fYEkI[/ame]




    Gushiken dispatches a multitude of severely food poisoned foes.Could Gonzalez cope with the food poison?.
     
  12. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,744
    78
    Apr 4, 2010
    Gushiken was a bit of a plodder, at least on the front foot. He was a lot more patient and poised in that position, though. He'd eventually adapt without going outside of his natural style, unlike Gonzalez who resorts to ugly come forward brawling like you described in the above fight. Completely out of form from his usually very compact, combination punching style. We'll see what happens in the future with him, though.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,110
    48,335
    Mar 21, 2007
    I don't object to his fighting ugly though. Those pushy rushes are what lay an opponent low enough that he can be dragged back into his type of fight. He looks disorganised when he rushes, but he's landing and well.

    Based upon footage of Gonzalez against Takayama and Gushiken against Rios, i'd name Gonzalez better at cutting of the ring.
     
  14. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

    38,034
    91
    Nov 10, 2008
    I dont think Gonzalez is plodding, his offence is pretty dynamic. Although his balance and footwork is very wide and he isnt the most mobile at times.

    Calderon has the tools to beat him as I posted above, but I do think Calderon is good.

    I agree on Joyi, he is solid just not spectacular.

    Sticking with the Strawweights, anyone seen the boy Oleydong Sithsimerchai?

    For me he looks quite decent, he is sort of a 'back-foot Pacquiao' in the way he likes to move back probing for openings and when he sees it he launches in those counters like how Pacquiao throws his shots by realling commiting, stepping forward and thrown from the shoulder at full extention.

    He has dodgy stamina though and can phase out of fights as he showed against palacious.

    :rofl:rofl
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,110
    48,335
    Mar 21, 2007
    Jimmy Ellis MD15 Jerry Quarry.

    Odd, odd fight! Quarry spends most of the match trying to trick Ellis onto the ropes simply by walking back there. But on one out of three occasions, Ellis would just drop his arms to his sides and walk straight back, refusing to come in. Quarry's home crowd, furious. But Ellis was absolutley right in what he did. First of all, he wasn't the only one refusing to make a fight of it. And second of all, he absolutey wanted to avoid being brought onto Quarry's counter-punches. Ellis refused to lead throughout in fact, unless he could see the right punch, which was usually a lead right hand to the jaw. He hurt Quarry several times leading with this punch. He also had success early doors, dominating the fight early with a flicking, accurate jab.

    Quarry worked his way into the fight with body-punching and persistance, although he did have a moment in the 13th, I think it was, when he absolutley cracked Ellis with a left-hook, best punch of the fight. But then, instead of pressing, he went back to the ropes and waited for Ellis again! With his corner screaming at him to get in there, he tried to tempt Ellis onto him. Ellis did exactly the right thing, standing just out of range and making little half-feints like he was thinkging about coming in, and Quarry's moment had passed.

    One judge somehow had it 10-5 Ellis, and although that is crazy, he did "feel" like the winner. The fight that crowned Ellis the WBA champ, also bringing him something called the Boxing Illustrated Trophy, suffered by it's reputation as dull, but i always enjoy this one. A really weird mesh of styles and tactics. My copy has no round 12, but Durham and Fleischer, scoring ringside, both gave it to Quarry, so I went with him to fill out my scorecard.

    Ellis: 1, 3, 4, 8, 9, 10

    Quarry: 5, 6, 11, 12, 13

    Even: 2, 7, 14, 15

    So 6-5-4 Ellis.