the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Having watched Evander Holyfield vs Pinklon Thomas again I have to concede that this non effort by Thomas was either a thrown fight by Thomas, or that he got no time to train for it ("(very) short notice"). Just from a glance at the 1st rd of Thomas vs Bowe which happened later it is obvious that it was far from the best Thomas could do at his age then.

 

Amir Khan vs Julio Diaz

I watched this again because I remember it being an exciting fight. At the time I felt it was close but that Khan netted enough rounds to win before Diaz turned it up. Fight reminded me of Hatton vs Lazcano. British star at home after a bad loss looks to impress vs a Latino fighter gets pushed to near disaster only to follow with a big win against a "dangerous fighter" in a performance that supposedly makes them ready for the p4p star....Hatton got crunched by Manny, Khan looks on the verge of Floyd who will dominate him

heres what I saw this time

Khan took 1,2,3,5,6,7,9

Diaz had 4,8,10,11,12

I didnt have these as swing rounds but more so "spirited rounds" competitive rounds where Diaz had lots of success but you couldnt argue to me that he won them 2,6,7,9 though Bernstein gave Diaz 9

For me the fight was a lot like the Petersen fight, which I scored recently as well. Khan boxed with his feet and fast jab and combinations very well to net a majority of the rounds unquestionably. However later he would succumb to rallies by Diaz like Petersen where he stopped moving and ultimately became a sitting target and got cracked. Winning more rounds but the rounds he lost were more definitive that the rounds he won scoring points and moving

to me despite his work with Virgil Hunter he was the same old Khan. Maybe he boxed and moved well when he banked 6 of the first 7 and despite going down recovered well and Diaz never followed up. Now maybe its Khans openings and flaws defensively that led to Diaz landing bombs later to turn the tide or Khan not being able to move for 12 rounds

to me Khan has never had a truly complete performance, I havent seen the Kotelnik fight which is probably it but he always gets himself in trouble even when in control like vs Maidana and Petersen...I had him killing Maidana on points before Chino rocked him and tightened it late by sweeping 10 on

Khan still has the same tendencies when hurt and despite weak chin claims survived brutal and flush shots from Diaz just liked he did vs Maidana. He eeked out by a point on my card and only because Diaz never really got rolling til the 7th, and I still had him lose 7 and 9 despite that being where he kind of turned the tide

He did rock Khan in 10 and 11 and I'm surprised he did not go to the floor in those rounds, if he did he doesnt win this fight at least on my card

 

Bernard Hopkins vs Robert Allen III (worst trilogy ever ?)
Such a disgraceful performance from Joe Cortez ... Anyone remember ?

 

Last night I watched a fight I'd missed form back in the day that had been chosen as Fight of The Year by KO magazine for 1984, Carlos Santos W15 Mark Medal. For the life of me, I can't figure out why this fight is considered that great.........

It was impressive in its way for two reasons; first, Medal's courage and pluck. He never stopped trying and was throwing heavy punches at the end when he could barely hold his arms up. Big fighting spirit he showed, as he later showed against Hearns.

It was equally impressive to see Santos, usually known as a rather non-combative type, settle in and fight purposefully, and his conditioning was remarkable, moving side to side effectively over the duration fo the fight, never allowing Medal the opportunity to settle in and throw.

He floored Medal with a straight left (Santos was a southpaw) in the first, and aside from perhaps the sixth round until the 14th, when Medal roared back to floor and nearly stop the challenger, it was all Santos. A more one-sided "great fight" you'll never see. Santos had it pretty much all the way. The fact that one judge only had it for Santos by a couple of points should have resulted in that judge's license being revoked.

Glad I got to see it anyway. I'd always wondered.

 

The night before I watched Santos-Medal, I saw another Felt Forum special that never made it west of the Rockies at the time, Juan Laporte - Mario Miranda.

This was Laporte's coronation fight, with he and Miranda being pegged as the top two WBC contenders to vie for the vacant WBC featherweight title a month following Sanchez's death. Miranda came into the bout with good credentials, going 19-0 with 14 KO's, and sporting a lanky 5'-10" frame with a 75" reach(!) It became clear pretty early on though, that he just wasn't very good and that Laporte had drawn a lucky card after two tough challenges of Sanchez and then Pedroza.

Miranda had an odd, ineffective style.......he didn't utilize his height or reach in the slightest, instead leaning forward at the waist with his hands down, as if daring Laporte to try to hit him oin the chin. Laporte obliged, then obliged again. Thus a pattern had been established; Miranda would lean in and Laporte would hit him in the face.

Aside from the third round, where Miranda shoe-shined his way to his first ten-point round, it was all Laporte, though the Puerto Rican showed little ability to put away his overmatched opponent. After being floored in the eighth round and absorbing more punishment through the tenth, Miranda's corner stopped it following that round, and Laporte was finally champion.

 

Santos fight where he lost the title in a close one against Drayton is a very good bout, worth checking out if you've not already.

His fight with Benitez must be one of the worst of all-time though.

 

Haven't seen the Drayton fight, I need to, then.....I tried to watch him against Benitez, and couldn't make it through the whole thing. Awful stuff.

Can't help but like Drayton.......very weird, herky-jerky style; fought like a guy who couldn't believe his luck to just be there. Love his fight with Hilton. I can't believe he got up from that right hand in the first round.

 

Nathan Hine vs Hilton is an underrated fight, better thant Hiklton vs Drayton in my opinion.


Felix Machado vs Julio Gamboa : very good fight. Any other fights to recommand involving these guys ? (no spoilers please)

 

Kali Meehan vs. Lamon Brewster

Because of the recent resurgence of Meehan I thought of this fight. I hadn't seen it since the night it aired live, so why not?

First 3 rounds to Brewster, but I marked the 2nd round as "close" on my scorecard. It was only close because not much at all happened in this round. At the end of the third round Meehan started finding success by being the aggressor. Prior to this point it seemed he was trying to be the counter puncher.

I gave 4-8 to Meehan. I scored the 6th round "close." The 8th round was a huge Meehan round and credit goes to Brewster for not even continuing but winning a decent amount of rounds down the stretch. Of course, we knew he could already take a beating. This is close to a 10-8 round, but I scored it 10-9 Meehan.

Actually Gave Brewster the 9th 10th and 11th Meehan shot his load a bit and Brewster had his moments down the stretch of the 9th, to steal a "close" round on my card.

Surprisingly to me a bit, Meehan needed to win the 12th to score a draw on my card, which he did.

The real judges scored it - judge: Adalaide Byrd 114-113 Meehan | judge: Dave Moretti 113-114 Brewster | judge: Nelson Vazquez 113-115 Brewster

Final thoughts - Watching the fight I just can't help feel Meehan did enough to win. He was the more confident fighter, and every "big" moment of the fight went to him, including the huge 8th. However, he didn't quite do enough and I scored the aggression heavily in favor of Brewster. To sum it up, the rounds Meehan won were super clear to me, the rounds he lost were all pretty close, but the slow start, and maybe being a bit tired from rounds 9-11 after the big 8th cost him on my card and apparently in the eyes of the real judges.

Brewster 10 10 10 9 9 9 9 9 10 10 10 9 114
Meehan 9 9 9 10 10 10 10 10 9 9 9 10 114

 

Rid**** Bowe Vs. Tony Tubbs

This is a fight I've heard called a robbery over and over so I've finally decided to check it out. In short, I disagree with those that call it a robbery. I wonder if this is a product of one person saying it and others falling in line without actually seeing the fight. It's surprising how much I feel this comes up in boxing forums, but I digress.

The announcers said the Bowe team was surprised by the shape Tubbs came into this fight. They expected him around 250 and he came in at 234.5. Also the announcers would make you think that Bowe won this via shutout. The youtube version of this fight cuts off right after the scores are announced, which is a shame, because I would have liked to hear the announcers eat a little crow.

I gave Bowe the first three rounds. He started the fight hurting Tubbs within the first 30 seconds. Tubbs was still trying to get his thoughts straight in the second, so gave up that round too. Tubbs came out and dominated the first half of the third with his jab and head movement. He made Bowe miss a lot of punches this fight. He slipped a ton of jabs and used the loose ropes to his advantage, making Bowe look silly a number of times.

I gave Tubbs the 4th and 5th. Tubbs puts on a clinic in the 4th. I don't think Bowe hit him with anything flush. Tubbs was hooking off the jab a lot and it was a pretty beautiful thing to see it land so much. Bowe was slightly stunned in the 5th, I think. That moment gave me enough to score a close round to Tubbs.

I gave Bowe the 6th and Tubbs the 7th. These were fairly slow rounds and hard to score - for me anyway. The 8th and 9th I gave to Bowe. The 8th was one of the more clear Bowe rounds since the first two rounds of the fight. He had Tubbs a bit hurt.

The ninth I gave to Tubbs because again he boxed beautifully and made Bowe look lost at times. Bowe did a good job not getting frustrated here. He had never gone past eight rounds prior to this fight, knocking out almost everyone. He stayed pretty composed, a product of Eddie Futch in your corner I have to assume. I thought Tubbs won a close 10th round.

My final scorecard was 96-94 for Bowe. Additionally I gave Tubbs two "close" rounds, as I note them on my scorecard. Because of that I don't really have a problem with Bowe winning this one and I don't see it as some great robbery.

Great learning experience for Bowe, I'd say. They were talking about him fighting Holyfield or Tyson "soon" during this match, but this version of Bowe was not ready. Great job by his team getting him fights like that before meeting up with Holyfield some 20 months after the Tubbs victory.

 

Due to the recent controversy

Mauricio Herrera vs Jose Benavidez

116-112 Herrera

Herrera taking 1,2,3,,7,8,9,10 12

Benavidez taking 4,5,6,11

The only swing round in the fight to me was 7 where they had an even punch stat at 18 a piece, though I don't score on compu box as I question its accuracy and this isn't the amateurs it is telling. To me Herrera came on stronger as the round ended and was the ring general pushing Benavidez to the ropes and controlling the pace and location of the action

In trying to figure out how Benavidez could have been awarded the win I look at a few rounds that I'll call benefit of the doubt rounds including the swing round. So I came up with 7 as explained before, 9 Benavidez was on the ropes and out landed most of the round but with around 30 seconds to go the ref broke them for low blows and Benavidez rallied landing good hard shots but Herrera had got in some too and controlled the round on the ropes, 10 saw Benavidez have moments in space as in the early portion of the round and some of the late portion but ultimately was on the ropes too much and out fought, round 12 saw a spirited round by both guys maybe they favored Benavidez power or generalship being it wasn't fought on the ropes

So if the judges gave him the benefit of the doubt in those 4 It goes from 116-112 on my card to 116-112 the other way. That would take giving lots of liberties in favor of a guy who was on the ropes a lot and outworked in those rounds. I mean Benavidez would create space to land hard shots and had many flush jabs but was it enough?

Did the judges give Benavidez any of the first 3? Not much happened there

Only dominant round of the fight to me was 6 for Benavidez

Even with my benefit of the doubt rounds in figuring out how the judges could possibly have reached a UD for Benavidez the judge who had it 9-3 must have given an early round to Benavidez. Im not sure which one maybe 1 or 2?

 

Continuing on the Controversial Weekend

Timothy Bradley vs Diego Chaves, Bradley's Welterweight Comeback

115-113 Bradley

Bradley- 2,3,4,5,7,8,11

Chaves- 1,6,9,10,12

Swing Rounds- 1,9,10,11 Clear Rounds- 8 for Bradley

My score paints a close Bradley victory and a tweak one way to Chaves in the 11th which Lederman and IB did in the RBR thread I would have it 114 even. To me the fight is funny. I had it a point closer than Lederman and the RBR and many other posters but left out a round they gave and gave a round or 2 not others would give

There is no justifying Julie Ledermans score, that was an abomination. But the draw card to me is possible. Bradley established control in a brawl up close and beat Chaves to the punch and then after what I thought was his best round in the 8th took his foot off the gas and let Chaves into the fight

Maybe it was tactical or maybe he was tired but round 9 was a quiet round that me and Lederman scored for Chaves though it was close and I and others had Chaves sweep 10-12 to really cut it. Chaves did impressive outside work with his jab and his right hand to bank late rounds.

My card nearly mirrored Lederman but deviated. We agreed on 6,9, and 12 for Chaves. I gave Chaves round 1 and 10 to Chaves but Bradley 11. I don't know if I took too many liberties having it as close as I did and if scoring 9 and 10 for Chaves but not 11 shows inconsistency I don't know. Many might not agree on those rounds but I particularly thought the compacter and better formed punches though fewer more effective than some of Bradleys slapped out round house punches

*****HBO was terrible in calling this fight. Chaves success was completely uncalled and unnoticed by a quiet HBO team whenever he had any success. They literally hardly called his landed shots even in a round like round 6 when he won amid a Bradley controlled fight

It was so bizarre to see especially since during the first Bradley vs Pacquiao fight they were dead silent when Bradley had any success or landed anything at all.

I don't normally get too annoyed by commentary and drain it out and don't let it make or break my enjoyment of any sporting event but this was so apparent especially later as the rounds got quieter and Chaves would land and they would talk about stuff like boxing business and the difficulty of judging it was sad

 

Just finished up Jose Luis Ramirez-Terrence Alli. Very nice little tussle.

Alli was always strange to watch; he looked like he might be able to box, but never seemed to give in to that spirit, and always wanted to outwork you, or occasionally try to outpunch you, which was ill-advised since he was devoid of power. He'd hop around his opponent making you think he was going to box, but then he'd lose that train of thought and jump in and start throwing lots of quick shoeshine-type things meant to be flashy and catch attention.

In this fight, he started off trying to match the stronger-harder hitting Ramirez punch for punch and it made for some great exchanges, but it was a bad fight plan. Then in the fifth, Alli started circling and trying to box, and it worked for a bit. Ramirez had some trouble cutting off the ring and one can't help but wonder what would have happened had Alli opened the fight that way.

As it was, Ramirez's constant pressure took a little out of Alli, who gave in again and started to meet Ramirez in the trenches. Round nine was exceptional, the whole round was one long exchange, very nice indeed. It was just what Ramirez wanted.

The last three rounds were mostly Ramirez, and he almost put Alli down and out in the twelfth. A well deserved decision victory for the workmanlike Ramirez. I had it for him 7-4-1.

 

Watched Dany Garcia vs Khan and then vs Mathyse.
Vs Khan, Kenny Bayless did a similar thing 2d referee's effort in McClellan vs Benn in d 3rd rd, only 2 seemingly prematurely save Khan in rd 4. If 1 saw rd 4 alone, 1 kud wonder y woz it stopt.

Late in d Mathyse fight Garcia scored a KD wich i biliv woz e rizalt of Mathyse not c'ing e panch dyu 2 hiz i b'ing klowzd.

Wu nows wot klowzd it b4 it.
Ol in ol it woz e kompetitiv klows f8.