the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

I have to decided to watch and score a Terry Norris fight today, but haven't narrowed it down to which. Suggestions?

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJefreBf1nE[/ame]






From about six minutes in it shows some footage of his fateful fight with Minter.Horrible brutal knockout.Minter could look ungainly and left gaps, but was really quite destructive if you let him start whipping in those straight lefts and lacked the mobility or top-notch skillset needed to counter him.

 

Good anaylisis of it.

I thought Ellis was using his jab a lot more consistently and that helped him alot as he was constantly the busier man as that jab was probing but non-commiting and really just annoying Quarry.

It was weird as Quarry wanted to ocunterpunch of the ropes but he didnt do anything as Ellis did not commit with anything and just kept at long range with the straight shots and Quarry couldnt counter. Yet Ellis did not want this kind of fight even though he was getting the better of it, Ellis wanted Qaurry to open up a little more and be able to counter, which he occasioanlly did well.

However, Quarry was most effective when he let his hands go especially to the body but he very rarely led in the fight, depsite his corner exhorting him too.

I do not score even rounds so in the close rounds I thought Ellis's jab won him the round, hence why my score is fairly wide.

Such an odd fight

Ellis: 1,2,3,4,7,8,9,10,14,15
Quarry: 5,6,11,12,13
Total: 145-140 Ellis (10-5)

 

If you can find his fight with Vaca try that one. Id like to know if it really was as close as they scored it. Split decision win for Norris.

 

For the first time I managed to see Ricardo Lopez vs Rosendo Alvarez I

Will watch the rematch in a sec.

People always bring this fight up saying Lopez struggled with Alvarez's strength, I really dont see this in the bout. I feel alvares is technically correct enough to look normal and not ungainly, but awkward enough to be a pain in the arse for any technician, and his awkward shots mucked up Lopez's timing abit and that was the main problem. The fight really wasnt about strength, it was mainly fought at range. Wow and that punch Alavarez lnded was a peach, I felt he stept into it slightly too much and couldnt fully extend it and get the equired snap though.

Lopez would get his range and timing at times and land afew good shots but he could not sustain it and Alvarez would go back to disrupting Lopez's rythm with awkward shots, and Lopez started to look ragged and would throw wild in retaliation.

Lopez: 1,4,6,7 KD'd 2
Alvarez:2,3,5
Total: 66-66 DRAW (4-3 Lopez)

 

Yeah, the Jorge Vaca fight caught my eye but unfortunately it's not readily available to view anywhere on the web. Maybe I'll see if Raging Bull has it.

In the meantime, Norris vs. Jorge Castro is available...

Round 1 to Norris on the more plentiful and clean connections, although Castro did land some nice hooks to the head and body. Norris showed a good variety of punches and his right hand in particular was very effective in forcing Castro backward.

Round 2 actually belongs to Castro despite what the Sky commentators (including Alan Minter) think, as the first two minutes saw him catching Norris flush on the chin with his hooks launched with his back against the ropes (he may have even been pushing off a bit for leverage). Norris was still the general with his jab, but Castro largely caught it on his gloves and was able to slip the larger flurries from Norris. Most of Castro's counter attempts missed in the final minute of the round as he threw more blind lunges, but the hooks from early on landed harder and cleaner than anything of Terry's late.

In the 3rd, Norris controls the early going by again pressing Castro to the ropes and this time tweaking his attack to include a jab/uppercut combination that leaks through the guard, as Castro is reduced to throwing clubbing overhand rights in parry. Much better defense and head movement from Norris now, and he really starts to open up with fast combinations that have Castro flummoxed. Norris also clearly winning the jab battle now, sticking his sideways through the gloves of Castro, who simply paws with his own as he backs away. Castro goes a bit overhand right crazy, not even bothering to line the punch up or focus on Norris before throwing recklessly. Norris slips most of the attacks, and keeps his frame clear of any bodyshots in the process. At the end of the round, Norris fires three consecutive straight right hands, followed by a hook/straight right combination that all land on the button. Clear Norris round.

Norris continues to do as he pleases in the 4th, picking Castro off on the way in with the jab or pouring himself into crash-bang lead hooks and quickly resetting himself to defend. Norris fighting two-handed, favoring the hook and uppercut and ignoring the prize of his arsenal (the straight right) - and showing a wide variety of effective defensive tactics: deflection, jet-like footwork, upper body movement, and clinching. Castro, for his part, is dragging crescent-like punches from his gorilla crouch out toward the body of Norris but can't place them.

39-37 Terry Norris through 4.

In the fifth, Norris unveils a new combo - jab up high and then a right to the body. Castro lands a hook to the body of his own but quickly reverts to missing with his wild swings - mostly generating his power from his shoulders, rather than his legs. Norris gets Castro into a corner on the strength of his jab, and goes to town on him - finishing with four unanswered hooks. Castro survives and makes his way to center ring but is hurt by a straight right hand, stumbling back to the ropes and cleaving to them as Norris tries to finish. When Norris pauses to catch his breath, Castro comes on strong swinging hard with both hands and forces Norris to dodge for the last twenty seconds. That was as close to a 10-8 round without a knockdown as you can get.

Norris is much less active in the 6th but boxing nicely, blocking most of Castro's limited attacks and counter jabbing. Norris has made an adjustment of quickly lifting his right forearm at a 90 degree angle to catch the slow hook of Castro that had previously been sneaking in on him. Castro is left looking for other offensive options but without a strong jab to set anything up he is left floundering.

Castro does begin to find a bit of an answer in the 7th - he'll throw the hook, have it blocked predictably by the forearm of Norris, and then drive his right hand in to Norris' chest before he can bring the defending arm back down. Castro is also able to threaten, if not land outright with hook, by simply coming off his feet and sort of leaping toward Norris' right flank as he throws it, as it was hard for him to reach with his feet planted; this also helps with his elevation as the shorter man can not easily punch level with Norris' head when the latter is standing straight up. Norris is still landing crisp combinations in between lunges from Castro. Castro dips to land a hook to the body and pulls out still ducking to evade counters from Norris. Norris responds with a hard right to the body and a few to the face, interspersed with hard jabs. This was Castro's best round in some time but the best you could score for him is still even. Even cards are not my thing, so 10-9 Norris.

A big right hand to the jaw early in the 8th has Castro retreating but not wobbled. Castro keeps his head tilted to his right and throws overhand punches to both sides, a few landing partially but mostly blocked. Norris pins him once more in the corner with an accurate volley, but in the process Castro times him with a short right hand that slows Norris and causes an exchange on even footing of which Castro gets the better. Castro does not press the advantage as Norris covers up and leans on him, then goes back to his boxing after regaining his composure.

79-73 Terry Norris two-thirds in.

Castro begins the ninth aggressively, backing Norris up so far and so fast that he slips and does a faceplant in a corner. After they mop the ring, Castro begins trying to lull Norris in with a lazy jab while backing slowly up, and then quickly bursting forward with overhand rights. Norris doesn't fall for it and hops on his bike, swatting lunging lead hooks from Castro away backhand with his jab hand while circling on the outside. Castro swallows some bombs that would spell knockouts for lesser men with his hands down low; Norris decides that discretion is the better part of valor and goes back to the outside. Castro walks him into the opposite corner and tears in with a thudding combination, again mostly blocked. Castro suddenly very active with his hands, setting up with his jab and throwing hooks to the body, uppercuts and overhand rights together. Norris plays possum in a corner and runs right under Castro's right hand, making him miss badly and then spin to face Norris.

In the first of three championship rounds, Castro has his head rocked and his neck extended like a Rock'em Sock'em robot as Norris picks him apart from a comfortable distance, even though Castro is mostly backing up along the ropes' perimeter, looking weary, and throwing very little in return.

Castro seems to find a second wind in the 11th, putting together a minimum of two punches but still finding Norris too slippery. Norris even begins to find success infighting, as he pushes Castro to the ropes and smothers him, loosing his hands on the way out. About midway through the round there is what perhaps ought to have been ruled a KD off a six-punch combo from Norris by baby Joe Cortez (he had hair!) as Castro was held up momentarily only by the bottom rope, by his buttocks. Norris slows his output now and punches for power, advancing mostly behind the right hand. Norris then decides to hook with a hooker, landing his and blocking those of the now very arm-weary Castro with ease.

Castro really comes out on fire in the final frame, intent on touching Norris with something. Most of his wide punches are missing, but he's able to at least bully Norris around and make physical contact with his forearms. Castro's explosion has Norris a bit cautious, and only bothering with the jab. Norris' activity is actually low enough that Castro can time and slip his attacks while pushing forward, and always throwing. Castro missing a lot, but a few baseball-pitch right hands did brush Norris' cheek, with Norris not landing much himself. I can give this round to Castro.

118-110 Terry Norris from IB

Official judges:
120-108 Terry Norris from Alfred Asaro
117-111 Terry Norris from Chuck Giampa
118-110 Terry Norris from Franz Marti

I wonder which other round Giampa gave him? Maybe the 7th...

Ian Darke of Sky Sports had it as an indisputable 120-108 for Norris, and Alan Minter, by then a pro yes-man, agreed.

Jorge Castro is a hard man, but not a cute bone in his body, eh?

 

As promised the rematch between Alvarez and Lopez.

Again in thsi fight I still dont think Alvarez's strength is the key factor in making Lopez struggle, it is definitly part of the equation but not the be all and end all.

I think alvarez is better in this fight than the first. His pressure is alot more educated and he really cuts the ring off well forcing Lopez to fight inside, this is where alvarez's strength comes in as Lopez isnt comfortable on the inside and Alvarez's strength dosent help. Lopez lands some nice shots on the inside but generally let shimself be outworked and is forced into alvarez's fight alot of the time.

When Lopez does get rnage he does well but it isnt vey often

It was a great scrap, be interesting how other people scored it.

Lopez: 1,2,5,8,10,12
Alvarez:3,4,6,7,9,11
Total: 114-114 DRAW (6-6)

 

Markus Beyer vs. Eric Lucas, 2003

Round 1

Lucas stakes out his turf quickly with a quick right hand that keeps Beyer honest. Beyer wings his left rubber-armed but does not seriously threaten with it, keeping his distance. Lucas advances behind the jab and is emboldened to go to the body. Beyer catches him pulling out with a quick sequence of point-scoring taps, amateurs-style. Beyer jabs in on Lucas and is ducked. Lucas keeping a very low center of gravity. As a result, he is able to invest some body work on Beyer, whose defensive concentration is up high. Beyer takes some heavy impact to the gut, while only countering with a jab and landing it but not discouraging Lucas from crouching in (but still bouncing on his toes) and banging low. Good balance and nice sneaky upward punching from the Canadian while cleverly giving up his height, but "Boom Boom" does not show any signs that he is rattled.

Round 2

Less eventful, a sort of regressive round, with more cautious feeling out from both than in the first. Lucas the aggressor, with Beyer slipping his jabs and landing a couple of his own, eliciting hoots from the German crowd. Neither really asserting dominance, but Lucas pressing the action. He begins to dig down to the body again and pushes Beyer back a few times. Beyer then misses a straight left hand, which Lucas ducks, but the follow-up lands on the button as Lucas straightens up. Beyer quickly darts to his left and lands another just before the bell. I still give it to Lucas as Beyer's offensive efficacy came too late in the round and wasn't enough to steal it.

Round 3

Lucas is letting his hands go and not landing altogether much until nearly two minutes in, when he rocks Beyer with a series of right hands. Beyer is able to backpedal before Lucas can capitalize but he is soon caught up with and visibly forced back by another right hand despite partially blocking it. Lucas gives chase, pumping out the same punch determinedly. He then tries flicking a jab to confuse Beyer but isn't able to reach him by the round's end. This could have turned into a 10-8 if Lucas had cut the ring off better.

Round 4

Beyer is boxing well, turning Lucas and planting the right jab on his forehead. Lucas pops in and out of his crouch and loads up the cannon with right hands that Beyer mostly sees coming enough to react to. Lucas misses one and then just waves the right arm around at Beyer's head, simply trying to touch him to get a sense of placement (or maybe just for the satisfaction of making contact, even if not with a power punch) but Beyer slips adeptly. Beyer works the jab, and then rope-a-dopes Lucas nearly out of the ring before running back to the middle and setting his feet to wait for him, springing a four-punch combo on him when he arrives. Beyer continues to circle, jab, and duck right hands. Beyer's round.

Round 5

Beyer tries a 1-2 but quickly goes back to his jab and move pattern when a Lucas counter right gets dangerously close. Lucas begins to drop his hands as he follows Beyer, at which point Beyer jumps in and does manage to get off a southpaw 1-2 while still on the move. Lucas follows in with a jab now, and Beyer weaves his own faster southpaw jab around Lucas' left, on either side. Lucas finds Beyer momentarily on the ropes and pins him there with a right hand intentionally thrown on the gloves to push him into them, and then tries to crash home with a hook but Beyer is able to roll from the impact and get out of the position. Lucas fires from out of range as Beyer keeps his stance aimed well away from the right hand. Beyer lands a lead left to punctuate what has been his second consecutive round, and second total.

Round 6

Beyer skittering out of the way of Lucas' harder right hands, and jumping inside when Lucas doesn't have the arm cocked to land his southpaw 1-2 and/or left uppercuts.

Even halfway through.

Round 7

Lucas has had enough nonsense, and neutralizes Beyer's offense with a stern jab, moving in quickly to try and work the body but mostly winding up in brief clinches. Finally a two-punch sequence lands for Lucas, the trusty right hand down the pipe followed by a left hook around the bend. Beyer is still moving and avoiding most of Lucas' shots and tossing a jab his way now and then, but has been taken out of his rhythm he'd found over the previous twelve minutes. Lucas begins to land his own jab as he closes the distance. He pins Beyer on the ropes and again targets the body but settles for a clinch. Beyer lands a sweeping left at the end but has lost this one.

Interestingly, French-language television has only given Beyer one round to this point, having it 69-64 for Eric Lucas, to my 67-66.

Round 8

A microcosm of the fight, the opening minute is Beyer's accurate right jab against Lucas' powerful straight right hand. Beyer lands a left on the heels of a jab and the crowd lets him hear it. Lucas doggedly tries for his own 1-2, ducking low nearly past his waist after each delivery to avoid counters. He changes tack and tries a hook to the body but can't quite reach the quick-footed Beyer. He doubles the jab and closes in, then stays glued to Beyer and pommels his guard with a few power shots, some in combination. Lucas was the aggressor but must have had a very low percentage, too low to get the nod here.

Round 9

Another sweeping Beyer left catches Lucas as Beyer orbits to his left, and Beyer goes back to the safety of the jab. Lucas gets near enough to loose several of his own jabs, and eats a hard counter left bang on the mouth. Beyer deflects further jab attempts with his own, and Lucas manages to squeeze in a few off-balance uppercuts while holding Beyer as a missed jab sailed past his neck, not much on them. A variant of the previously successful right hand and hook combination shows up but Lucas isn't throwing it as straight or as hard as he was. Beyer runs around him, hook-jabbing around his lead glove as he moves. Beyer on a roll.

Round 10

Beyer still boxing mostly defensive-minded, but landing enough jabs and thereby scoring enough points to stay out in front. Lucas is picking his spots now and going for power, rocking Beyer on his heels as his right hands are blocked but still emitting kinetic force. A few clinches come about as Lucas ducks and rushes in, but nothing too ugly.

I have Beyer 96-94 going into the championship rounds.

Round 11

Lucas wears on his figurative sleeve that he is desperate to retain his title by knockout (although with no reason to think he's too far behind on the cards...or even behind at all - other than being in Germany...) and Beyer remains elusive. Lucas hooking wildly. Beyer is light on his toes, teleporting himself around Lucas and letting ripcord jabs and lead lefts find him halfway-turned.

Round 12

Lucas carries the action with his 1-2 and rights to the body. He also hooks frequently but this punch is not landing for him. He keeps trying for the big difference-maker until the end. Beyer gave this one away being overcautious and throwing too little for his efficiency to count.

My final tally is 115-113 for Beyer, and my conclusion that there is NOTHING sketchy about the start of his title reign. This was no home-cooking, he "took the title from the champion" by outboxing him for long stretches of time, making him miss and using the jab (and I really like Eric Lucas!)

Official scores were 116-113 twice for Beyer and 114-115 from the minority judge for Lucas. None of those make sense to me as there were no knockdowns or point deductions from fouls that spring to mind...and none of the rounds were otherwise disposed to warrant 10-8 scoring. Using basic 10-point must those cards indicate "Four rounds to seven" and "Six rounds to five" respectively - adding up to eleven rather than the full twelve. Odd.

Overall a fairly entertaining match-up in viewing terms, of an outside boxer vs. a pressure-boxer/puncher with the juxtaposition of Beyer's textbook implementation of the European southpaw style and Lucas' awkward aggression making for some very intriguing style clash in an otherwise tame battle where neither was ever badly hurt.

 

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/boxing-news/EricLucas-MarkusBeyer.php

What a maroon!

Does this Ludwig fellow post here? Hopefully he's had a chance to study some boxing in the last seven years. I get so sick of these types who blindly score ineffective aggression with an irrational phobia of the finer points of sweet science...the guys who, if they had it their way, would have someone like Cory Spinks with a career losing record.

Beyer gets a very bad wrap due probably to guilt by association with friend and stablemate Ottke, and a very close fight with Danny Green resulting in an unpopular decision. He also gets pegged as one of the weaker recent champions and among the weaker wins on Kessler's pre-Calzaghe tear.

To the first point - Mr. Ludwig's grumbling isn't merely a case of Beyer not getting the benefit of the doubt from a jaded historical perspective - that article was written as an immediate gut response (long before Green)! atsch To cite this an example of someone getting unfairly screwed overseas is an insult to those who actually have suffered this fate. Beyer won this one fair and square to any objective set of eyes.

I actually rate Kessler's quick destruction of a very skilled defender and two-time sitting champion as one of his better wins - better, actually, than his win over Lucas just prior. Lucas, warrior that he was, was almost tailor-made for the straight punching Kessler.

 

Yes he does. In the genearal mostly and not often. I think he is German too. Thing is most Germans give every close fighter to the foreign fighter just to not look biased. Which is bull**** to me.

Btw. if you can sit through it I´d like you to watch those Ottke fights and make a summary like with Beyer-Lucas. If I do it, I´d be just called biased.
G. Johnson
Brewer II
Mitchell
Larsen
Brewer I

I rate them from the clearest win to the closest one in my opinion. I don´t think the first three fights were anywhere close enough to be really debatable. Larsen could be debated but he did nothing himself so I have a hard time giving him the win. Brewer I is imo the only one you could really argue that should have not given to Ottke.

 

I'll check 'em out. :good

 

holyfield vs lewis again loved the 1st 5 rds.lewis won maybe something like 9-3.felt sorry for him

 

McGrain, I love to hear your so interested in the 1950s heavyweights. Would you mind posting a clip or two of the machen-summerlin fight and Bonavena-Folley fight on your youtube account? Preferably Machen-Summerlin.


ps Bonavena was pretty green when he fought Folley, but Zora was a bit shopworn himself. I think Zora was past his prime by 1965. Still a top quality fighter though, just not at his late 1950s best. Did you notice of how aggresive Folley is? I can see why he outpointed machen. Folley combines his elite technical skils with an aggresive offense and big right hand. I can also see why he got knocked out a few times..too aggresive. That right hand down the pipe is a beaut huh?