the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Wow razor close!
     
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Thank you very much
     
  3. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just watched Basilio-Saxton II; thoroughly enjoyable fight, probably my new favorite Basilio effort.

    Saxton made an ill-advised move in meeting Basilio head-on in the trenches from the opening bell. He didn't have Basilio's economy or short punches necessary to make that pay off, and he looked the worse for wear by the time the middle rounds came about (sensational second round, by the way) and he finally decided to try to box from a distance. By then it was too late; Basilio's body punching and raking combinations had taken his legs and in the seventh, Carmen started connecting with long right hands over the top, further proof that Saxton was unable to move as he wished. He'd have probably avoided those shots earlier.

    In the ninth, one of those overhand rights connected along the ropes, and Saxton's legs went awry. Basilio showed what a learned finisher he was in not flailing wildly, but opening up Saxton with a patient yet concerted effort to open up Saxton's slouching guard. When the champion staggered to the near-side ropes barely able to stand, Basilio really opened up and the referee wisely stepped in.

    Really good fight.
     
  4. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    Basilio was a beast and a lot more skilled than sometimes given credit for imo.He's always reminded me of a more brawling oriented Carlos Ortiz.
     
  5. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And he seemed to understand (or maybe his corner did, or both) the correct time to open up from long range once Saxton's legs had no spring in them anymore. Just a really solid professional effort against a good fighter.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ayub Kalule SD12 Sumbu Kalambay

    I think Kalule edges the first round with the southpaw left, which is ironic on account of the space he makes early to get out of the way of the southpaw jab. The second, Kalule just looks more insistent, more aggressive and this bring him another very close round. I like fights like this - close rounds going to a given guy. Where's the adjustment coming? It's this dynamic that makes this one of the best fights of the 80s I reckon.

    The third, Kalambay takes with more of the same though. He just happens to land two of the best punches of the fight, one a chopping right-hand upstairs off the ropes, and another similar, sneaky right hand to the body which may have been more uppercut. Kalule holds his **** together beautifully though, cultured pressure pressure pressure.

    Beautiful fourth round. Kalambay lands another stunning counter-right to the body, his feet are moving beautifully he's really draping that left hand out there, but I just feel he's being out-pegged and outworked. No doubt that he wins the fourth though, barreling Kalule over with a left hook after hurting him with a counter-right and uncorking some real wingers at this hunter. Good, sudden, aggressive boxing and it's Kalule now who is giving ground and trying to get out of the way with head-movement. He comes firing back though, only to get caught again - he was lucky to survive that onslaught and might not have had Kalambay punched himself out a bit.

    My sense in the sixth is that Kalambay has the fight back in his own hands despite his slipping almost all the way out of the ring. Kalule isn't going away - but this felt like a guard-changing type round, despite Kalule's late rally. Kalambay also countered his way to the seventh, in the dying seconds, by my eye, boxing well but still vulnerable to Kalule's occasionally rushes to the inside. Kalule looks like he fancies it less in this round though I think. Nevertheless he almost poaches it on activity until the counter-rights Kalambay lays on him in the last forty seconds. Yeah, Kalule definitely doesn't fancy it as much since the KD. It's allowing Kalambay to forage with the jab, and in tandem with the major spear of his body-attack it's going to win him these rounds IMO. I now have it 5-3 Kalambay with a KD and am aware i might be on the verge of producing a pretty controversial scorecard (never scored this fight before).

    I really want to give the ninth to Kalule but can't. Kalambay let him into this round by abandoning the body attack early, but soon he was hitting out with those shots again, seizing control of the round as it wound down. I thought he took over with ten-twenty seconds left. Superb generalship. Kalule looks spent to me. But the tenth is his round, by God! For the first time he is landing his southpaw left and that is telling. Kalambay is missing a fair bit, and although Kalule is too, he is landing punches to the body again and driving Kalambay back again rather than just chasing and being countered. In a rematch, Kalule's right hand would be everything if you were running him.

    Kalule got a bit too used to following Kalambay around I think; he comes far to square across himself and Kalambay drops him with a lovely snapping short righthand. That puts the fight beyond doubt for me, and i'm erring on the side of a robbery shout here, despite the fact that Kalule dropped Kalambay in return in the very next round.


    KALULE:1,2,4,10,12*
    KALAMBAY:3,5*,6,7,8,9,11*

    * Scored a KD.

    114-111 or something. Scoring fights is hard. Is that controversial?
     
  7. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    That's a similar card to how i saw it when i last scored it for a forum debate on it years ago.

    Pretty even first half then kalambay had a good run that along with how i scored the knockdowns made me feel it was a harsh decision him.

    Great fight though, one of the best middleweight bouts of the 80s imo.Kalule gives a last excellent performance for someone that going into it is a bit past his best after some gruelling fights at 154 while drained and a brief retirement.

    Kalambay isn't young age-wise but after a late start as a pro and mostly stifling safe Italian matchmaking still has stuff to tighten up on.

    It's got that classic one on the way up\one on the way down dynamic and is notable in that sense for being between two of the three best post-war African middleweights.
     
  8. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Felt compelled to score Kalule-Kalambay myself and also came up with 114-111, though I had rounds two and three different than McGrain. Odd that they'd give this to Kalule as clearly it was a pro-Kalambay crowd and at that time, it was thought that European judges much preferred boxers to pressure fighters. Interesting fight.
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Three in a row for 114-111ish, that's fact then.
     
  10. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    Italy was rightfully notorious for it's hometown decisions back then too.

    I guess all the hype and favours for a foreign fighter based in Italy at that time were going to Larocca.Talk about backing the wrong horse.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Sumbu Kalambay UD15 Iran Barkley.

    Having won thirteen fights in a row and mere months from his defeat of Thomas Hearns, Barkley comes up short against Kalamabay in Italy.

    Kalambay starts quite aggressively looking to put Barkley under control with the jab, but he lets Barkley go Blade a bit in the second, hooking his way in, finding the body. I thought Kalambay changed up a it in the third, in response, but I also think that Barkley kept on him enough to nick one, despite shipping a horrible uppercut. Nicely balanced with twelve remaining.

    What a great fourth round. I thought Barkley nicked it again - he's doing well - on the aggression and the left, his strategy is a good one IMO, very simple, steady pressure, throw the punch that is there without getting fancy. When he boils over (as was his wont) Kalambay will catch him with a counter but it's worth it for Barkley.

    Kalambay crackles his way to the fifth though, faster, snapping up the left hand from down low to punish Barkley's defensive frailties. This is a great fight. Kalambay steps it up in the sixth - he can if he needs to can't he? - winging in these crackling uppercuts there's something sizzling about his style when he gets going like that. Great way to even it up on my card. I think maybe he could go away with it now, Barkley is starting to look like he wants to get freaky and I think Kalambay will take advantage of that with ease. He takes a steaming seventh narrowly on my card, commentary thought he won it wider.

    Dominance. Know where Barkley is going to be, knows where he is, got his number. He's the boss in there. Barkley is still coming, not like before but still. However, jab, uppercut, that surprise right-hand, it's all there. Kalambay has Barkley locked up. Kalambay rides the punches well which probbaly nicks him the tenth, although it was closer IMO. Lol at the Kalambay left in round 11. That's awesome. Barkley gives ground in the face of this punch in 12.

    What a 13th! Barkley left it all in the ring there. How on earth does he make it through the next two? Great round of boxing, I loved it. If this fight had been ten rounds it would have been a great fight. You could make a case for Kalambay in the 13th, but fortunately it doesn't matter and I can afford to be sentimental. Scored to Barkley, on heart. He probably took the fifteenth on aggression, winging them in. You got to admire the way Kalambay handles him wild though, just going back into his box and his boxing, taking the 14th with hi jab, relaxed, making him miss.

    Great fight. Best fight I seen in ages that I hadn't seen before that wasn't current. If that makes sense. Great, great stuff.

    KALAMBAY:1,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,14,
    BARKLEY:2,3,4,13,15

    10-5 Kalambay, masterful performance great fight.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Sumbu Kalambay UD12 Mike McCallum

    I have seen this one before, and my memory is that Kalambay was less good than in the Barkley fight but this is the one everyone is on about so let's see.

    Uneventful first - Kalambay steals it on the quicker jab, just about out-feels McCallum. Second round is also close but McCallum is hitting to the body, he strays low enough to draw a warning and will have to be careful but I thought he nicked the round despite being out-jabbed. Kalambay is getting low with that double-pump, looking for the torso like he did against Graham, maybe thinks McCallum is tough to hit? Close close rounds though...Kalambay is out-bodypunching and out-jabbing McCallum by the end of the fourth though. He changes on a pinhead. Is that the best jab in MW history? He's making a dummy of McCallum in the fourth and fifth, making him miss by miles, introducing the right hand through the sixth, pouring it on, speed, jabs, just a beast. I did mis-remember.

    McCallum hurt by a right in the eighth, he puts me in mind of clusters rather than combinations somehow but either way he's getting the better of McCallum in every department. He comes to a point where he's "solved" a fighter I think and from then on in it's just cake. He goes away with McCallum's right, and comes back with a bigger punch of his own, it's crazy. I thought he might lose the tenth but he just did too much great work in the tenth. Nobody beats McCallum like this.

    I gave McCallum the 12th because. He's a real nice guy.

    Kalambay:1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11
    McCallum:2,3,12

    Dafuk.
     
  13. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    I think the poor quality ring hampered both guys a bit in that fight.They were slipping a fair bit until they got used to it.Those pigeons nests that seemed to be the norm in a lot of 80s European rings weren't exactly ideal for boxer types, not a lot of room for sloppy\uneconomical movement, so it was impressive to see good boxers still control aggressive fighters in them.

    Would have been interesting to see Leonard vs Hagler in a ring the size those fights took place in.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Kalambay-Barkley you mean? For the slipping?

    Why does a mover like Kalambay seem to have a preference for small rings?
     
  15. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    yeah Kalambay vs Barkley.

    I don't know that he did favour them.He didn't seem to have much pull as an italian fan-favourite until after the Mcallum win, so maybe wasn't in much of a position to dictate things and that was the standard size of many Euro rings.i'd say even the brit rings were often smaller than the average American one back then.

    Interesting when you consider the usual school of thought was Europe favouring outfighting.