the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Roman Gonzalez UD12 Juan Francisco Estrada

    Estrada has such a great first round, really fast hands, fluid, that left uppercut looks dangerous and he seems less than awed by Gonzalez. Gonzalez just stalking, hands high, taking what Estrada gets through. Second is desperately close. Estrada is real good at moving off just as Gonzalez throws; Gonzalez is already adapting throwing a straight right to the body and then a sort of right prod upstairs as Estrada moves up. He's riffing a bit. I thought Estrada barely nicked the round in the last few seconds.

    Gonzalez is out-sped and out-reached. But he's also tough and determined about getting Estrada cornered and although Estrada is mobile enough to prevent Gonzalez from hitting his fluid heights, i think it's fair to say he begins the job of breaking Estrada down a bit in three; Estrada is swelling from the lleft eye and the nose at the end of the round. To me, it looks like Gonzalez has adopted a high risk style of pressure and corner, and when he corners, he just throws relentless combinations body and head, a high risk strategy against a bigger man who is also a good puncher. It looks like he is going to steal a high-action round with this style but Estrada comes roaring back in the final seconds taking advantage of Gonzalez's overextending of himself to land really big punches.

    After six I have them 3-3 with Estrada starting to look just a little bit disorganised and I have Gonzalez going into the lead for the first time after a really close round I thought Gonzalez poached upon his pegging Estrada in a corner and letting fly with forty seconds remaining. He didn't land a huge amount there, but I think he just about scored to his favour. In the eighth, Estrada has become available for the Gonzalez left hook for the first time and Gonzalez has a cushion. It's actually some run on the cards this, but Estrada breaks it in the ninth, which is the lowest intensity round of the fight but which is still excellent.

    I have it 6-4 Gonzalez going into the eleventh, I have them taking one each, what a fight. Gonzalez had to make it a war to win and he did that but Estrada must be made of concrete. Absurd, crazy fight, haven't seen many better.

    I think Estrada is good for p4p top ten personally.

    7-5 Gonzalez.

    GONZALEZ:3,5,6,7,8,10,11,
    ESTRADA:1,2,4,9,12
     
  2. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Salvador Sanchez UD15 Ruben Castillo

    This was Sanchez's first defense of the WBC crown, and it occurred to me that other than the Ford fight, I've never bothered to score a Sanchez bout. So here I go.

    Castillo comes out as one should against a counterpuncher like Sanchez; moving, flurrying, never offering an opportunity to counter. When Sanchez does try to counter, he's just a tick behind. He has to lunge a bit and leave himself off-balance trying to catch the skittering little water bug in front of him. As a result, I have Castillo up 4-0-1 after five.

    Sanchez begins to pursue with a little more urgency by round six and has a big seventh, but he's not panicky. If anything, I'd like to see him make the fight a little messier and dive in to take the fight to Castillo more. The challenger is devoid of power or physical strength and seems affected whenever Sanchez muscles his way in, but that is not Sal's game. Come hell or high water, he will fight within himself and slowly unravel his opponent by degrees. This is part of what makes him interesting to me; even in the midst of a taut, close, hard fight that seems very much in question he goes about his business of breaking down his foe incrementally and does so with supreme confidence that it will work in his favor. He never wavers despite losing some early rounds, and never overextends. Despite never having gone 15 at this point (being his first defense and all), he seems an iold sage at the championship distance, as if he's done it a hundred times and is simply biding his time, waiting for his challenger to tire or fold.

    Castillo rebounds to take the eighth on my card, but then Sanchez ratchets it up another notch and runs the tables from that point, catching Ruben with long rights and being the better ring general. Castillo is still busy and still in the fight, but he's just a bit sloppier and has the look of a man trying to hold the tide back with a spoon.

    At the end I have it 9-5-1 for Sanchez, about the same as two of the official scorecards. Well deserved.
     
  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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  4. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just watched **** Tiger W10 Rubin Carter.......

    Basically, Carter just got his azz kicked. I gave him rounds 5 and 9, but really only because Tiger took his foot off the pedal a bit and allowed him a little room to move. Tiger knocked Carter down hard twice in the second and once again in the fourth, and just cruised from there. Carter seemed very respectful by about the third round, and was jabbing while moving away from Tiger, always mindful of Tiger's leaping left hooks which were so damaging in this fight.

    I love how Tiger parries the jab too......from the orthodox stance, he catches the jab with his right glove and slides it past the left side of his head out of the way, opening his opponent up for the left hook that's coming more often than not. A beautiful move.

    Carter was just out of his depth here. He showed some good basic things like good movement, an attempt to control the center of the ring, and a hard jab, but he never seemed to be able to piece all these ingredients together into anything cohesive. Tiger is the more "finished" fighter if you will, and simply runs over him. Easy night for Tiger.
     
  5. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Mustafa Hamsho SD10 Curtis Parker

    This one has been described as a bad decision in favor of Hamsho, and I guess I agree that Parker probably deserved it, but it was such a hard fight and so difficult to score because of all the phonebooth warfare that I don't see it as a robbery.

    Hamsho: 2, 3, 4, 5
    Parker: 1, 6, 7, 9, 10
    Even: 8

    Essentially then, I had it even heading into the last round, which saw Parker largely outwork Hamsho.

    Lots of fouling (gasp) in this one, and uneven mauling which made scoring a chore. Interesting fight, and I can see the need for a rematch, which Hamsho won fairly easily. He seemed to tire midway in this first fight, and Parker did more heavy scoring late, just barely edging it on my card. No complaints with the decision though......too close, too hard to score.
     
  6. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Salsa, got my chance to sit down on this one. First of all, you're correct. A difficult one because of a lot of mauling. Vinny Rainone was **** in this one. 10 rounds of warning Hamsho for butting with no points taken. i'll admit their styles were take no prisoners and the southpaw/orthodox combo was always going to be tough, but there were many times it appeared blatant. Regardless, good tough fight and here is my score:

    Round 1: Parker
    Round 2:Hamsho
    Round 3: Hamsho
    Round 4: Even
    Round 5: Parker
    Round 6: Parker
    Round 7: Parker
    Round 8: Parker
    Round 9: Even
    Round 10: Parker

    Total: 6-2-2 Parker

    Hamsho did well when bulling Parker to the ropes and negating his punching, but I thought Parker was just a bit busier and threw the cleaner shots. You and I were not too far off really. We agreed on 6 rounds, 3 were even rounds that could swing either way and the only one we actually disagreed on was the 5th round. Good fight.
     
  7. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    See, I couldn't have a problem with this or any scorecard for this fight really. I'm not wholly convinced either that I'd score it the same way upon a second viewing! I suppose I favored Hamsho's "ring generalship" if one can call it that, where he does that patented "lean in with your shoulder and shove" move, moving Parker against the ropes and smothering him. Parker scored often, but it was usually with his back against the ropes while being mauled.

    Still, I'd buy this. Nothing worng with that card either.
     
  8. itsa

    itsa Boxing Addict Full Member

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    FULL UNBIASED MAYWEATHER VS PAC SCORECARD

    may vs pac
    10 9
    9 10
    9 10
    9 10
    10 9
    9 10
    10 9
    10 9
    10 9
    10 9
    10 9
    10 9

    116 TO 112
     
  9. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Marvin Hagler UD10 Marcos Geraldo

    I'd never seen this one, and am glad to have finally gotten around to it. Hagler had a rough time with the tough Geraldo, perhaps a result of (according to him) not being in the gym as much due to some family matters, but Geraldo deserves credit for extending him.

    Geraldo is lanky, busy, awkward, and ridiculously tough. This version of him is hell on a lot of middleweights. He fights in no particular rhythm, and is hard to get a bead on as a result.

    Hagler scores mostly with his hard right jab and short right hooks, though he does make a brief foray or two into orthodox stance, more a result of his frustration at not being able to completely solve Geraldo as anything. When he does score, Geraldo's head snaps back, he'll back up, and then unleash a bunch of arm punches at Hagler that look flashy.

    Hagler lands far more solidly and is more consistent, though there isn't that extra gear for him this time. He is simply workmanlike in this effort, and it's enough on my card.

    97-93, Hagler.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Brian Viloria SD10 Omar Soto

    Viloria deploys his jab and looks to sneak a right to the body whereas Soto seems content with a look in the first. In the second, both continue to miss a lot but I thougth Soto edged it just a tiny bit with counter body-punching. It's not an exciting fight but it's a very finely balanced one.

    Viloria does interesting things on defence, dips very low, takes a really good radar step back. He's not as there to be hit as he appears I idon't think, although he's no Pernell. Some nice right-handed work brings him the third and the fourth, but he's not getting the jab motoring and he's not really got Soto under control.

    In fact, I think Soto grabs the fifth with his instance, Viloria looks a little tired.

    By the end of the eighth I have Soto far enough ahead that Viloria can't afford to drop another round. Soto succcessfully walked him down, establishing pressure and punching opportunities and taking them. He's also been busier, and although I think you could argue that Viloria is hitting cleaner by a shade, there's very little in that.

    It's Soto's to lose.

    I have them splitting the ninth and tenth which means I have it to Soto 6-4. The 2nd and 5th were probably close enough that a split decision wasn't too disastrous but i think it's a hometown decision if not quite a robbery.


    VILORIA:1,3,4,10
    SOTO: 2,5,6,7,8,9
     
  11. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Ken Norton-Jimmy Young fight. Haven't watched it since it took place in the late '70s. I recall having Young just nicking it at the time. Today, it's no different. A nightmare on how close some of these rounds are. Very subjective and obviously it could go either way, but here ya go.

    Round 1: 10-9 Young
    Round 2: 10-10 Even
    Round 3: 10-9 Young
    Round 4: 10-10 Even
    Round 5: 10-9 Norton
    Round 6: 10-9 Norton
    Round 7: 10-9 Norton
    Round 8: 10-9 Young
    Round 9: 10-10 Even
    Round 10: 10-9 Young
    Round 11: 10-9 Norton
    Round 12: 10-9 Young
    Round 13: 10-10 Even
    Round 14: 10-9 Young
    Round 15: 10-9 Norton

    145-144 Young

    Man, 4 even rounds. I never have 4 even rounds. But it would be a disservice to a fighter to try to come up with a winner of a round just so you don't have an even round. And these rounds were that close. A fight that close one cannot have a problem with it going either way, as long as the judges scored it close, which they did.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ray Leonard SD 12 Marvin Hagler

    Leonard looks great. Great stick and move. A real nice jab over the top in round two. SOme of these punches are pretty stiff. He's just literally moving, he isn't even doing anything flash just enough to keep Marvin coming onto him. It's way more flat-footed and economic than I remember.

    Marvin looks disinterested. In clinches i keep waiting for him to get rough or start mauling, he doesn't do any of it he just hits to the body a bit and that's all. He looks like a wasp with no stinger.

    I thought Leonard won a much closer third, too. I love that clumpy left out of the clinch that was still somehow snappy as a punch...Hagler meanwhile lands one or two blows of real significance in this round too. Good punches. But he's missing chances to punch too. More than the movement I think this is what hurt him in 1-3. He's seeing openings but not landing like before.

    Fourth round is huge.

    I got Leoard. I think that he landed the flat-out better punches in this round. Hagler looks way behind the pace. It's mad when Leonard comes under him and by and Hagler is just two paces off! I don't see this as "smoke and mirrors". I see this as four legitimate rounds in the bank.

    The fifth I thought was very close. Leoanrd is now starting to land risky, risky right hands, right hands you shouldn't throw at a fighter like Marvin. On the other hand, Hagler closes this round down with hard punches he looks far more himself. I'd give it to him, just about, based on the fact I think he hurt Leonard in this round. But the sixth is a Leonard round. I don't understand the counter-argument at all. Leonard landed more, he landed sharper looking shots, yes Hagler is the puncher but that doesn't mean he automatically overtakes when he is up against a sharper, busier opponent. Hagler looks arm-weary, slow.

    No way back for Hagler that i can see.

    He wins the seventh and eighth but i thought the eighth especially was very very close. What's the case against Leonard, that he's "shoe shining"? He's throwing well formed sharp punches. They aren't booming power shots but they are still good punches. Both shattered.

    Hagler has dominated the second half of the fight but I think he never was in full control. I don't think he won a single round out of sight and I think that Ray came blasting back in the tenth, two lovely combos win him the round. Hagler is stalking but impotent. Leonard now cannot lose on my card. In the words of Gil Clancey, "Ray has Hagler tamed." I absolutely agree. He now cannot lose on my card.

    LEONARD:1,2,3,4,6,10,11,12
    HAGLER: 5,7,8,9,

    8-4 Leonard.

    No controversy.
     
  13. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jose Torres KO9 Willie Pastrano

    I have to admit being a bit of a critic of Torres. I just never thought he showed all that much, though he seemed a good man and of course a decent fighter. I've seen both fights with Tiger, Bobo Olson, and most of the Cotton fight so I was anxious to see if anything might change about my opinions by virtue of seeing this one.

    Not really. I will say though, that I think I've pinpointed why I am sort of bothered by Torres as a fighter........he attacks, but only incrementally. It's kind of like a Chinese water torture; he may throw hurtful punches here and there, but despite the opponent's distress or depleted condition, never amps up the attack, never switches gears to get him out of there. He just drones on.

    In this fight, Pastrano is just awful. He offers nothing. From the very beginning he jabs weakly and tentatively while moving away, wanting only to avoid contact. Torres moves forward resolutely if patiently behind the peek-a-boo guard, jabbing his way in and pounding rights to the body when Pastrano runs out of room and has to meet Torres inside. This pattern continues until the fifth, when the challenger rips a left hook to the body and Pastrano goes down along the ropes. He gathers himself enough to take another four rounds of strictly measured, carefully doled-out leather until he realizes he's had enough and doesn't come out for round 10.

    Not much of a fight, really. Pastrano doesn't win a round.
     
  14. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The other thing that reared it's head before and especially during the fight was the work of the corners. Polar opposite. What a wonderful job Dundee did and his scouting. Is there a better trainer for boxer types?

    And everything Angie did, those Petronelli's didn't. They looked like the guy's working Liston's corner.....towel him off/give him a drink/say nothing relevant/give their guy a pat on the back when they're removing the stool. He paid them how much? For that?
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, that was pretty weak.