the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Cris Arreola vs Travis Kauffman

Never was an Arreola fan and felt he has looked done in his last 2 fights. He got in very good shape vs Stiverne for the rematch and it showed in him having the lead before the stoppage. But he became inactive and his weight climbed.

I'd say Arreola's best quality is his ability to land while the other guy is throwing. To me that was very visible in his molina fight where he was hurt bad and landed shots to steer the momentum and stop molina in that same round he was hurt in. At his best he had quick hands for a heavy and given his ability to take a hard shot and deliver a hard one he has been able to get hurt but hurt over aggressive oppoenents. Kassi was awkward enough to land on Arreola and smart enough to not hang around to get nailed

Round 1: Its apparent the weight loss on CA, I mean he will never be cut or muscled but he is trim or at least trimmer. He came out extremely aggressive and he does that often as he has plenty of early KO's. TK is fat but he survives the early onslaught and lands some shots of his own. Arreolas defense is mostly a high guard with no real head movement which plagues him when he faces quality guys who are creative on offense. CA did bob down a little but that was the most he did with his upper body. CA does pull back a very exaggerated right hand almost like shooting a bow but some how this very telegraphed shot lands. 10-9 CA

Round 2: Interesting round as TK switched his stance southpaw and back again. He tried working a left uppercut to the body a few times and did a nice left hook to the body right to the head combo but was nailed by an Arreola right and briefly hurt. CA came after him but TK survived the brief onslaught. Neither guy jabbing all that much though as the round settled TK switched back orthodox and they each exchanged a few jabs. Arreola landed a couple hard rights to the head and a nice right to the body. TK keeps bending real low when coming in as a way to avoid bombs and CA frustrated keeps pushing his head down even gets a warning. 10-9 CA

Round 3: CA comes out with a double jab and a left hook and momentarily hurts TK. CA jabbing more like his corner asked and even moved and turn TK with his foot work. CA looked very much in control of the round though his jab out put decreased when TK is southpaw. CA appears to be getting very cozy in there putting both hands down, crossed his feet once or twice and just isnt going after TK. Arreola threw a jab didnt bring his hand back quick TK got low with a left and right to the body followed by a right to the head that floored CA. CA looked gassed and lifeless as TK came after him southpaw with some straight lefts and right hooks but didnt go all out after him. 10-8 TK

Round 4: The first minute of the round is perfect for TK who comes out aggressively in an orthodox stance. He pushes CA to the ropes with a few snappy jabs and goes left hook body then head. they get out of the corner and TK lands a right hand lead and gets CA back in the corner. CA has hardly thrown in a minute if not landed. The legs look there, TK is now in total control but it feels like maybe he should do more to test where CA is. CA definitely recovering. Arreola caught TK with a solid left hook but did nothing with it. CA began to work a jab as TK switched stances and switched again. TK fired a 4 punch shoe shine like flurry then got two sneaky rights passed CAs left glove. 10-9 TK

*TK has some snappy punches but lacks real athletic explosiveness. I think if he had that this fight might have been over with by now. He wasnt really explosive enough in round 3 to finish the deed, there were 40 or so seconds left when CA got up

Round 5: Fatigue is setting in for both guys as the fight seems to be in first gear. TK is coming after a backing up CA and is doubling a jab and trying a right hook to the body and even landed a nice over hand right to the head. CA seems to try and throw a crisp double jab when his back is to the ropes and countered TK with a nice left hook when cornered and got in a nice wide over hand right of his own. TK landed a lead left uppercut near the end of the round and a few more shots. close very close round I think TK did just a little more. 10-9 TK

*CA is clearly thinner but his gas tank seems no better and he certainly is not any more explosive or quick. CA to me just looks pretty bad in there I dont rate TK and TK isnt doing anything ground breaking but he is having a lot of success

Round 6:Tough competitive round. Both seemed to come to life in that round after a break round like the 5th. TK comes right out and lands a big left hook only to get caught by a CA right uppercut. Ca does a better job with his jab and puts in a few nice left hooks. Both seem spent near the end of the round like they dumped what they had. 10-9 CA

 

Part II Arreola and Kauffman

Midway score if 57-56 tight fight, the broadcast team seems to think CA dominated the 4th after going down in the third. I didnt see it that way but who knows. Farhood has it the same just swap 1 and 4

Round 7: Fight settling into a pattern of CA making TK play chase. CA just isnt punching, when he does he lands effective shots but he just isnt letting the hands go. Seems to be fishing for a big counter or to make TK tire himself out and then pounce later. CA lands a few snappy jabs here and there and gets TK to walk into single left hooks. The bet few punches by CA were a right and left he dug in combination to the body. Despite what I listed TK was all over him that round and out of both stances landed consistent shots to the head and body. He wins that round for me. 10-9 TK

Round 8: TK dominated the 8th. He seemed to take some steam off of his punches but just started to land more frequently with singles as they say as opposed to doubles and triples. Midway thru the pitty pat combos he would bust in a hard shot like he did with a left uppercut that snapped CAs head back. He snapped CA's head with left hook and landed a hard left hook at the end of the round to solidify it. CA lands hard shots when he decides to open up but they are starting to do less damage to TK.

* I'm guessing TK tires a littlle more and CA begins to rock him or CA has been saving a lot in the tank for the last third because this fight is slipping away fast.

Round 9: Better round as far as pace and action. CA tried to go on the offensive but any time he landed TK landed one or two in return. TK still kind of just keeping his hands in motion just throwing with less power but greater volume. Big low blow with a big right hand behind it. no point but 5 minutes taken a huge rest for CA and only 39 seconds he gets 6 minutes rest with 39 seconds of fighting in between. no real action by CA after the break. I think he lost the round. 10-9 TK

Round 10: Best round in a long time maybe the best of the fight CA began to chop away with his right hand. TK still swings away with a few solid left hooks that do damage. They trade left hooks with 6 on the clock both take them well. CA came alive and TK didnt adjust to the more offensive CA. Rather than maybe hang back and counter CA he continues to just come straight in with no creativity and is a sitting duck for right hands. I know when you pressure all night you dont wanna let off the gas and let the other guy get comfy and attack but TK was probably better suited to think hey this guy is finally fighting back, lets make him come to me. 10-9 CA

Round 11: Very very close round. CA early landed a solid left uppercut to the head then chopped in a right up top. CA then went left hook head than body. The final minute started with TK getting in a big left hook when CA let his head get too far out in front and TK began to land some shots down the stretch. CA got in a solid right at the way end. CA 10-9

Round 12: CA rocks TK right away but then TK battles. TK sticks his left out to touch gloves only to nail CA with a right, odd. TK lands a bomb spins CA around hurt and off balance CA stumbles then lands on gloves and forearms as TK finishes strong. 10-9 TK

My score 115-112 or 7 rounds to 5 rounds with a knockdown

Judge 1: 114-113 Arreola
Judge 2: 114-113 Kauffman
Judge 3: 114-113 Arreola

Winner by Split decision is Cris Arreola the judges had this fight 7 to 5 for Arreola with the knockdown pulling it to a 1 point victory. The other had it even with the knockdown proving the distance.

Again I am no expert judge, I hate calling a fight this close a robbery but I have a very difficult time giving this to Arreola. Even Farhood had this for Kauffman and he probably didnt give Kauffman 12 like me. I'm guessing the difference is that Arreola got the first like he did on my card and not Farhood and got the 4th like he did on Farhood but not mine and got him the 12th. I guess those 3 makes it 114-113 for Cris if my math is right

Again like the Kassi fight and possibly the Harper fight though I'm not perfectly sure Cris is well outlanded in power connects and to me this is a serious concern.

 

Epilogue Arreola vs Kauffman

The Fight: A very close and competitive fight but not really the most entertaining. They landed some real solid punches and there was a knockdown but ultimately the rounds were more of Arreola laying back and Kauffman out worked a guy pacing himself or just out of gas. Kauffman showed some good technique but wasnt well conditioned and Arreola despite the weight loss wasnt any better conditioned.

Arreola: Not the most technical guy but he is a fighter. I liked his jab, he throws good combinations compared to a lot of heavyweights and has quick hands. But he isnt well conditioned and can be very lethargic. He couldnt fight 12 full rounds hard and had to take a lot of breaks. Imagine if he didnt get the 5 minute break in round 9... I dont think he will ever be a serious contender again but with his experience and knack for a good s**** he may lure a prospect into a battle and land something and win another good fight but I doubt he wins a title or beats any one top 5

Kauffman: unlike Arreola I think he is very technical and well schooled. That said he isnt that athletic and he isnt in shape. I really liked his left hook and he got creative with the right hand to the body.He said he is better than Kassi and I think Kassi is actually a good opponent for Kauffman and I hope that match gets made actually.

 

Erislandy Lara vs Jan Zavek

I missed this live, I had thought Zavek was done after Thurman since I hadn't seen him fight since

I thought Zavek was pretty good vs Berto and on paper after seeing the result I was impressed

Seeing it Zavek really looked his age and had nothing for Lara. He was too slow and stiff. Bizarre end but I don't feel it was going much longer

 

Saul "Canelo" Alvarez vs Erislandy Lara

I only watched this one the night of and thought it was too boring to ever really revist. I watched the Lara vs Zavek fight from PBC and I see clamoring on Boxing Channels and in comment sections and forums about people wanting him to be a Golovkin challenger. Some are very convinced he beats Gennady.

I never scored this fight, I gut feeling scored this for Lara but never had a 12 round, round by round scoring. It seemed like Lara had build enough of a lead before coasting that I can remember. It was the rare occassion where I thought a fighter had won but was happy they didnt get the decision. I felt its a high profile fight with two of the sports top operators given Floyd and Manny are gone and they are two guys with different styles I figure this is an important fight and who knows maybe a rematch some day

Whats nice is YT has a cool in the arena no commenatary SHO Stats or any indicators of how the fight is playing out other than the fight itself and the crowd

Round 1: Nothing ground breaking Lara moves real well both left and right. Lands a couple of jabs and a few lefts to the head and one nice one to the body. Alvarez lands a left hook to the body. Struggled to see anything else clean of note 10-9 Lara

Round 2retty close round starts with Lara falling into the ropes from a right hand that hit his left glove but was enough to make him lose balance. Crowd went nuts, Canelo followed up with some shots but nothing really effective but the crowd still cheers wildly. Lara responds by landing a very flush and very powerful left hand you could really see the leverage he got on it. The punch had little too no effect though. They are separated a few times and each time Alvarez is pushing on the ref to get back at him. He even lifts Lara like a wrestler but isnt issued much of a warning. Neither guy really hurting the other or asserting dominance of any kind. Lara had the best punch. Alvarez had a few ok combinations, tough time picking some sort of winner here. 10-9 Alvarez

Round 3: Tight round again, at least by virtue of one camera angle and not a pro shooting this vid its hard to count more than 5 real solid connects by either guy here. This isnt monumental stuff though not as boring as I remember it is interesting watching Alvarez cope with a fast mover who has no intention of mixing it up. He misses badly a couple times and receives minor taunts from Lara. Lara landed a very nice right hook mixed with stepping around Alvarez a very classy move. Lara does the more visible work but so far again no one has asserted the tempo or hurt their man. 10-9 Lara

Round 4: Interesting round, early Alvarez gets to the body. Lara would be stationary just enough to be caught by some body work, Alvarez still struggling mightily to land to the head. alvarez keeps trying this very level sort of right hook to the head when Lara goes left some what like the punch that send Trout down. Alvarez is in an interesting spot, he loads up badly on wider right hooks and misses big time. He then tries to feint to get a reaction, Lara sees the feints and just steps further out of range. He isnt getting the geography he needs. However, Lara is not making Alvarez pay at all for his misses. Some of these missed shots are so far off the mark its surprising a well schooled guy like Lara isnt really attempting to fire anything in return. Alvarez right eye is showing some puffyness. 10-9 Alvarez (mostly on activty and body work)

Round 5: Starts off with a really bad miss by Alvarez but again Lara kind of prances away without countering. Alvarez goes for broke at the body, crowd loves it. Alvarez gets in a sharp right hook. He also gets in a couple of 1-2's and focuses on the jab. In moments of stationary breaks Lara puts up a high guard surrendering his body and Alvarez goes there but doesnt really land anything that appears too damaging. Alvarez nearly catches Lara with a few counters. I get the idea that if Lara stayed in the pocket a little more to counter he would be caught by an Alvarez follow up. I think Alvarez though slower is fast enough and savy enough to land a second punch despite the first not conencting. Its very safe for Lara to just escape but it doesnt allow him to get his hands on Alvarez only just makes him miss but Alvarez doesnt seem to be really losing composure for a young fighter. 10-9 Lara

Round 6: Very tight round, hardly anything to really separate. Highlight for me is punching in the clinch for Alvarez. Lara holds on and kind of stands there waiting to be pulled apart only to start getting hit to the body. Lara doing just a little more of the same, moving a lot but hardly throwing. Neither guy is landing all that much. 10-9 Alvarez

Mid way its 57-57 Even a draw as they say....I felt that Lara waswinning by this point live. I know the punch stat had him out land Alvarez or at least to the head and yeah that is apparent but Alvarez goes to the body so much and seems to land more to the body than Lara does to the head. I wish I had a better video in the sense of more angles a better zoom and some sound on the punches. Close fight indeed

Round 7: Lara really letting his hands go this round to the head. He landsa few nice one twos and a good right hook. He also will go jab cross and then a straight right hand (not a jab but I'm not quite sure how to call the punch, Kovalev throws something similar with his left hand). Alvarez gets to the body a few times but its impossible to go against Laras work to the head this round. 10-9 Lara

Round 8: Alvarez lands 2 decent right hands to the head, the most I've seen in a while, probably the first time he landed two to the head inside a minute all fight. Lara didnt do much outside of a straight right hand during a combination. Alvarez again just by virtue of volume and attacking takes that round. 10-9 Alvarez

Round 9: Pretty good round as Lara keeps the hands in motion. Both guys have good offensive succes and land in spurts. They hit heads, to me it looked like Alvarez was at fault, it lit a fire under Lara who shot off a nice combination to the head. Alvarez landed a very nice jab to the head and got pretty aggressive to the body again. One of his aggressive body attacks did put him on the receiving end of a nice right hook by lara. Very tight round, Alvarez 10-9

Round 10: Lara had a good round mixing in his left hand and a hard straight right punch following through after the left. He hit Alvarez with some solid head shots and moved out of the way. Alvarez landed a nice left uppercut to the head near the end of the round but it didnt look like it had an effect. 10-9 lara

into the championship rounds 96-94 Alvarez, 1 more to clinch it, lara can push for a draw

Round 11: Tight round, nearing the end of this one. Alvarez digs to the body with combo but Lara responds with his own to the head. kind of symbolic of this fight as a whole. Alvarez gets in a nice jab to the head and later an uppercut. Lara has some more consistent work upstairs. I'd say he nicks i. 10-9 lara

Round 12 Lara round he opened with a 3 shot combo to the head that seemed to freeze Alvarez for a moment. Later in the round he landed a solid left to the head that made Alvarez bend over a little

my final 114-114 in points and 6 a piece in rounds even

real judges 117-111 Alvarez, 115-113 each way for a split to Alvarez

 

Epilogue to the Alvarez vs Lara fight

Not a great fight but not as bad as I remembered.. My perception is very different. Live I thought Lara won them all early then faded bad down the stretch and was getting worked over at the end. Clearly not the case

I dont know how I feel about my card, I mean a draw seems pretty reasonable given the split but I dont know if how I got there is right. There are about 4 rounds I could probably score very differently if I sat down the next hour and watched it immediately again. Given this I dont think the 117-111 is super outrageous

On one hand I feel Lara needed to throw more and lost some rounds on my card based on running away and not punishing Alvarez for missing and because of this Alvarez would land a few body shots and miss some head shots badly but Lara wouldnt really come back at him and allowed the body shots to really determine this thing.

On the other I think Alvarez was trying to time Lara when Lara lead and I think Alvarez was looking to land a follow up shot after the miss. Anyone remember Sultan Ibragimov knocking down Ray Austin on ESPN, I know most of you probably forgot all about it but Ibragimov throws a hook misses by a good mark but throws another shot and floors Austin. If Lara hung around a little more he may have been caught badly

Stylistically it was an interesting clash with neither guy assuming full control or really rocking the other guy badly

 

I would just like to thank all of you gentlemen who contribute to this thread. This is an amazing source of information. You guys have expanded my appreciation for boxing ten-fold

 

I have 4 men I wanna watch more of these next 2 weeks:

Holmes
Liston
Walker
Ketchel

I've seem plenty of each before but I like refreshing my memory and altering my lists.

I especially cannot wait until I get to Holmes v Mercer.

 

got that on vhs

 

Jimmy Paul MD15 Irleis "Cubanito" Perez

The other day I started a thread about fights that were difficult to score. I should have waited until after I saw this one. This was Paul's second defense of the IBF Lightweight title, and he was expected to roll before scoring the inevitable KO somewhere in the mid-rounds. Perez had largely been dormant on the national scene since losing a close decision to a streaking, prime Hector Camacho. It stood as the transplanted Cuban's only loss to date, so there should have been reason to believe this would be a stern test for Paul, but it was on no one's radar. It should have been.

The lanky Perez fought out of a strange, herky-jerky stance and threw wide, looping, off-kilter punches from odd angles, and this kind of style plays hell with a stand-up, traditional boxer-puncher who leans on countering with singular power punches. One has to question the matchmaking here from Paul's camp's perspective.

I had it 9-6 for Paul, but have no confidence in the accuracy of this card. Perez would lunge forward and wing his strange, wide shots, and Paul would lean back and roll his left shoulder and deflect or dodge most of them, catching a couple glancing things, and then respond with single punches here and there, and do a fair amount of waiting. This was a terrible habit of his. He banked on that powerful right hand of his so much that he let rounds slip by a lot of the time and rarely threw in combination.

It really heated up intio a slugfest in about round 11 going forward, and Paul looked weary, but he was sharper, landed the harder shots, and looked more polished. Perez seemed a lot busier and more industrious, but his style was just so ugly and gawky that it was difficult to tell style from substance with what he was doing.

144-141, Jimmy Paul on my card.

 

Been watching all footage of Dempsey and Marciano lately.

I think their defensive abilities are a bit under appreciated.

Neither were masters of defended at all, but just like Frazier and Tyson were very hard to tag cleanly when they fought with ficus.

 

Orlando Canizales SD12 Billy Hardy

I hadn't seen this one yet, though I'd seen the rematch live back in '91, the one where Hardy is ignominiously sent azz over teakettle courtesy of a Canizales punch and perhaps a bit of a balance issue. Canizales stopped him that day in eight, but I remember reading back then that the first fight was a bit controversial and it was whispered that Hardy deserved the nod.

Here, Canizales is in Hardy's backyard, so that plays into it. He seems undaunted however, and does what Canizales does, bouncing and moving and throwing punches all the while. I give him the first two. Hardy takes the third barely on my card, as he appears to score the cleaner shots, if somewhat fewer of them. Canizales exhibits a bad trait here that he does from time to time; really the only bad thing I could say about Canizales, which is that he does tend to lapse into inactivity at times while still standing at range. He may bounce on his toes, or busy himself shaking out his arms, but he doesn't have an airtight defense, and even Hardy's rather simplistic one-twos are getting through because of this. He sneaks back into it by winning the fifth and seventh in this fashion and is within striking distance now.

Canizales rebounds however, winning the eighth and flooring Hardy with a perfect hook to the liver in the ninth, giving him a seemingly huge 6-3 lead (plus the extra point taken from Hardy for the knockdown) after nine.

Canizales' left eye is swelling badly now, and Hardy courageously rallies in round ten, just enough to take the round on my card, and he is a clear winner of rounds 11 and 12. No wonder the hometown crowd felt their guy had been done wrong, it was an impressive rally. Still, not enough to crown a new champion, at least on my card. Two of the three judges were about spot on I thought, the other must have been Hardy's cousin or something.

114-113 Canizales (6-6 in rounds, with Canizales having a 10-8 round in round nine that made all the difference).

Worthy of a rematch for sure.

 

Alejandro Gonzalez UD12 Louie Espinoza

This was the first defense of Gonzalez's WBC Featherweight crown he'd won in scintillating fashion from Kevin Kelley. The Kelley fight is one of the more underrated great fights of the 90's if you haven't seen it. Gonzalez walks through Kelley's best shots and just takes the play away from the dynamic Kelley in that effort, and one is truly left with the feeling we're watching the rise of a possibly long-term champion in Gonzalez.

Then he fights Espinoza.

Gonzalez is 21 at the time of this fight; he's younger, stronger, the natural featherweight (Espinoza had won a title earlier at 122), faster and harder-hitting. On my card, at least, he just squeaked by with the decision. Odd performance in an intriguing bout.

Espinoza is rocked early but hangs in and reaches Gonzalez with repeated left-rights. His nickname of "The Sharpshooter" is appropriate, as he seems to unerringly find the champion with his punches, at times jarring Gonzalez backward with jabs and rights and chasing him around the ring. Espinoza is easy to root for; 32 years old, above his best weight, industrious and totally professional and dogged in his pursuit of the younger man.

Espinoza's punches don't carry the weight of the champion's however, and most of the real damage is done by Gonzalez. I have Espinoza up after nine though, 5-4, just through his hard work and doggedness. On my card at least, Gonzalez is in real trouble.

It's times like this that I kind of look for excuses to give rounds to the guy I know ended up winning the fight, because I don't like seeing bad decisions, and I want to believe that despite how close a fight may have been, I need to know that the correct decision had been rendered. Just makes me feel better. I awarded the last three rounds to Gonzalez, but I can honestly say he earned them. He deserved to win, as he finally committed to coming forward and exerting his youth, power and speed. About time. All in all, it was yet another close points loss for Espinoza (though the official cards were stupidly and inaccurately wide) and you had to feel for the old man. Gonzalez did deserve it though, even if he was too tentative and didn't look anything like the young dynamo that had wrested the crown from Kelley earlier.

I had it 7-5 for the champion, or 115-113. Interesting fight because of the drama of Espinoza turning back the hands of the clock and pulling off a major upset.

 

Andre Ward vs Paul Smith

I remember this being on at the same time as 2 other cards and Smith looked so flabby I chose to record that and jump between the other 2

I watched round 1 and 2 and saw Smith completely out of his depth and Ward hardly getting out of first gear, it looked like a sparring session where neither guy appeared interested in hurting the other guy

I fast forwarded to the 5th and it looked like more of the same. Smith had nothing and Ward kind of sleep walking behind a jab. I skipped to the end of the 8th with Smith bloodied but was surprised to see Ward with his mouth open, the fight hardly had body punching from Smith and I dont think it was clinch or grapple filled

He finally got going when the blood poured from Smiths face and in the 9th he started shooting a very hard right hand through the middle and did damage. He didnt really do much but just pursue and throw rights til the Smith corner called it off

I think Ward definitely needs another tune up as his mouth was open after minimal exertion and he wasnt really pushed or tested in the slightest. The Ward of that fight certainly doesnt beat Kovalev and Golovkin would be able to land