the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mar 21, 2007
    Kid Gavilan SD15 Carmen Basilio

    Cagey first explodes a bit when Gavilan starts looking for the body. He's such a smart fighter, he picks a thread and starts pulling at it, then he moves onto something else. He gets a little too fresh in the second though, and gets caught with a flashing counter-hook during a messy exchange and then interrupts Gavilan's waiting jab to land a right hand double left hook that sends the Kid for a rare visit to the canvas. Ah, great feinting in by Basilio, the way he shapes for a punch he doesn't throw. KG's hair is mussed but he looks ok.

    In the fourth, Gavilan seems to have accepted that Basilio is in the box seat and tries to move, circle, change up to make him wait. It's working but it won't work long-term i don't think. Basilio takes the round with a rushing body-attack. Gavilan has pared down the action though - it's costing him steps, however.

    In the fifth, he holds his ground, tiny little steps that hide his attack. He really is an extraordinarily clever fighter. He chooses how and when they fight, not messing. And he takes this round, making Basilio wait but landing some punches when the mood takes him. So Basilio, who had been bossing, is nevertheless in a really close fight.

    Now he's mixing up the moving and waiting styles. **** boxing Gavilan. Basilio is doing really well though, allowing himself to be made to wait but not too much, not enough so you can ever say that Gavilan is in complete control of the action (though he's always in control of the when). There's monster in Gavilan when he gets in close and genius on the outside. Horrible. I have it even after six. And after seven!

    I got Basilio ahead after eight. Gavilan looks, momentarily, like he's not sure what he's got in front of him in the eighth. Still does enough work up close to keep the round very very close though.

    I have it even after ten. I have it closer than the judges at this point presumably because of the tied seventh and ninth which they must have given to Basilio. Either way, Basilio has a bad left eye and is bleeding from the nose. Still, i'd score the twelfth to Basilio - although it did have the feeling of a last hurrah a little bit.

    It wasn't quite that, I gave him a share of the thirteenth, but Gavilan was able just to jab his way to the fifteenth round. I suppose it's a bit of a back handed compliment that Gavilan felt the need!



    BASILIO:2,3,4,8,12,
    GAVILAN:1,5,6,10,11,14,15
    EVEN:7,9,13

    7-5-3 Gavilan.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mar 21, 2007
    Wanheng Menayothin TKO9 Young Gil Bae

    I think TKO9 is my favourite boxing result. Nine rounds is more than enough to get the flavour of both men and a stoppage is always my preferred method of settling the thing. Menayothin, one of the world's premier minimumweights has a strap and has started knocking people out in its defence, three on the spin including a stay busy non-title effort sandwiched between defences against Jerry Tomogdan (KO9) and this stoppage of Young Gil Bae. A de-globalised obsession with boxing in the small-hall but buzzing Thai scene means we're unlikely to see him on Boxnation or HBO any time soon but he's still one of the best in the world in his division and worth a look.

    The first round has the feel of a spar as Bae tries to establish a pawing rangefinding jab while hitting harder to the body and Menayothin, slate-faced, moves slowly in a wide circle twice dropping his much heavier jab and also looking for bodyshots. Bae probably snakes it on activity and a cuffing uppercut at the bell.

    Second round, Menayothin is all about business. He is moving less, coming forwards more, deploying that thumping jab. Bae tries to ditch it by shifting his head slightly to his left but it opens him up for the only slightly left stiff Menayothin right. So the Thai begins the process of walking his man down. Third is a beauty, Bae trying to use his superior size (he's a boiled down fly) to rush Menayothin and release that surprisingly effective long right uppercut; but Bae is defensively sound, very disciplined with his guard and excellent at making room for his left or right, both which are better than any Bae punches so far.

    Bae takes some beating in the fourth. Menayothin is not fast or powerful just technically assured, armed with a tremendous jab, has a great eye for a punch and is a fine general. Now he's warmed up he's not missing an opportunity to hit.

    This is going to be a loooooong boom, Menayothin is opening up with all kinds of great punches, putting his foot down as far as workrate is concernerd too. Punching two-handed up close in sniping attacks now, he cooly comes forwards behind his jab to add a right; Bae is taking some hits now.

    Give Bae his credit; the seventh is one of the best rounds of the fight because he just keeps coming forwards and punching and trying. Still losing but still trying.

    Menayothin knocks him down with a classic right hand on the button as Bae is turning away to his right in the ninth. Groggy but game, Bae tries to fight on but the referee intervenes. Arguably a little premature from the point of view of Bae still fighting back but it's a good stoppage. He was getting hurt in there from the second.

    Menayothin has good functional speed for all that he isn't fast-handed and has one of the best jabs in the world.

    MENAYOTHIN:2,3,4,5,6,7,8,
    BAE:1,
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Shinsuke Yamanaka SD12 Anselmo Mareno

    Two southpaws, this was also the #1 v #4 ranked bantam in the world. Nice fight. Moreno had los this last but on TD after seven rounds. Moreno sets out his jab nicely trying to push hard with it to the body but near the end of the round, Yamanaka lands a nice counter right uppercut that makes me wonder. A right to the body follows in the final seconds; so Moreno probably jabs his way to a desperately narrow first but there's a lot going on.

    Yamanaka takes a cautious approach waiting, holding his ground and just looking to see. Moreno is cautious too you'd think this would favour the faster fighter, basically. Not a lot of combinations basically. Probably Yamanaka takes the round with a couple of over the top punches and by landing his own pushy jab.

    The jousting is favouring Yamanaka who is 3-1 up after 4, but all the rounds are very close and neither man has acheived any fluidity at all. Not a satisfying fight, lots of feinting and shifting but no combos. Moreno evens it up to 3-3 by six, doing nothing more than throwing a tiny bit more, perhaps, and applying what he's learned defensively. He pulls some lovely duck and slip manuevers in the sixth although it sometimes leaves him sort of crab like hanging all off to one side while an occasional shot whistles by. It doesn't promote great offence.

    Yamanaka steps up in the seventh looking for punches in pairs at least, but he has terrible trouble landing the second one; Moreno is running away with this a little in the middle rounds, although he is doing it by landing punches cleaner in a confusing, confused.

    Things go badly wrong for Yamanaka in the ninth as he gets caught with a couple of clean ones on the button and appears briefly to be moderately hurt. You probably can't win a round in a fight where you get hurt; so I have Yamanaka needing a clean sweep to draw. Yamanaka comes on big time in the tenth however, repeatedly hurting Moreno with left hands, punches he was missing all fight. It's really taken the fight to a new place and the final two rounds have a fresher looking Yamanaka looking for a stoppage. He doesn't get this. In fact he misses with a huge majority of his hard shots. But the pressure is enough to bring him the eleventh and the twelfth both on my card, making it a draw. Can't see this one as a robbery, personally. Not even sure I would see it as controversial. Just a narrowly rendered decision for the house fighter in a close, messy fight in which the challenger everything that is difficult about his spoiling, veteran's style.

    YAMANAKA:2,3,4,10,11,12.
    MORENO:1,5,6,7,8,9.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mar 21, 2007
    Jose Napoles RTD 13 Curtis Cokes

    This could be the greatest clinic of all time. Cokes was near ATG, Napoles wins basically every round bar the eleventh, which I had even.

    He wins the first with single shots; a jab, just a little bit quicker to home, probably, than that of Cokes, although it's close. But Napoles tosses in a nice right to the body, two decent left hooks, a good right hand over the top near the round's end. They take truns to give ground in tiny incrimiments, but it is Napoles who is edging in at the end of the first.

    Napoles doubles up his jab when he misses the first one, or doesn't land it properly; sometimes it's just a feint, sometimes he just "lands on something", hitting the shoulder or the arm, other times he lands a short-as-possible left. That jab feeds a double uppercut, one from each hand in this round, and although Cokes finally fires back with something more serious of his own, Napoles slips and shifts his way out of them. The way he comes in is disturbing. He goes a little low, or a little off centre, but not much, not so it compromises him - and he is alive to punching opportunities. Cokes is hurt and in trouble with a minute left in the second. Cokes catches him with his own good punch, a right, not long after to put Napoles off for the moment.

    One-twos outside, that double-handed uppercut attack inside. He's winning at all ranges, looks loose, confident. He brings surprisingly consistent pressure in the fourth to take a much closer round on my card. Could this be one of the rounds the judges found for Cokes though? He got 1 on 2 cards and 2 on 1 card. The jab is the wasp in the horses ear, but the smooth combinations Napoles ties on behind them are what is making COkes so miserable now. He's offering almost nothing as Napoles beats him up with variety, accuracy and an eagle eye for any defensive weakness. Still, Cokes is now almost holding his own in the jabbing sections of the fight and there may be the seed of a plan there.

    Napoles looks almost intangible at times. At the opening of the fifth he is countering jabs that miss, but i'm not sure where those jabs go. Cokes is so slick, so good, but here he just looks like a journeyman. Literally. By the eighth, Napoles is happy to lead with a left hook and tag on the right. It does cost him a right hand from Cokes, but he's still outlanding his man despite the fact that he is busier and boxing riskier. But even punching at Napoles on this type of form is risky; punching just gets you hit.

    Napoles throws less in the tenth and eleventh, probably thinking now of the distance. Cokes tosses back even less, although he may have counter-jabbed his way to a share of the 11th.

    It's an absurdly good performance. The only criticism would be that he slows down a bit in the tenth, letting a demoralised, outclassed opponent back into the fight a bit.

    NAPOLES:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,13
    COKES:
    EVEN:11,
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Jose Napoles RD10 Curtis Cokes

    Cokes described in the first fight his "inability to get going". He found himself, despite a reach advantage, an on the end of Napoles jab until Npaoles didn't want to jab any more. The second fight, like the first starts slowly; but it's got a horrible conitation now because it's like that only because Napoles hasn't bothered to "get going" himself yet. Cokes's style kind of leaves him at the mercy of Napoles's gears. It's not pretty to see a Rolls Royce like Cokes placed so coolly in the garage by Napoles. As early as the second, Napoles has Cokes on the end of his left hook, to body and head. This means that Napoles has got started earlier and probably explains the earlier finish in the rematch. I'm at an absolute loss to define Cokes's new plan. It just seems to be not to get beat.

    God forbid you should miss Napoles, as you tend to get hit after that. I think this makes Cokes nervous about throwing. He does OK in the third, but is clearly out-punched and hurt badly at one stage before Napoles swarms onto him.

    Cokes is doing something differently actually in trying to stay of the ropes. Because Napoles' pressure is slow, Cokes is able to move in a tight circle when he comes on and follow slowly when he goes off. Unfortunately he's just as trapped within Napoles' range and just as likely to get hit when he misses.

    Technical disaster for Napoles, at all ranges. Mis-match.

    NAPOLES:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
    COKES:
     
  6. MVC!

    MVC! The Best Ever Full Member

    60,129
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    Nov 5, 2013
    Matt, have you ever done a scorecard for the Duran/Hagler matchup? I'd really like to see how you scored that fight myself.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mar 21, 2007
    Yeah, I did it a few pages back.
     
  8. chocolatito

    chocolatito New Member Full Member

    96
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    Nov 5, 2015
    Who have scorecard from duran - camacho I?
     
  9. Gr8Mandingo

    Gr8Mandingo Member banned

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    Jan 30, 2016

    I watched two last night....here are my scores:

    Holyfield vs Bowe II scored 114 to 114

    And

    Sweet Pea Whitaker vs JC Chavez also scored 114 to 114
     
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,565
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    Sep 15, 2009
    Liston v Ali 1.

    What a close competitive fight this was.

    I actually had Liston 2-1 up after the third round.

    Had it 3-3 at the time of the quit job. Liston doesn't look as slow as I first remembered, this left hooks he flashes at Ali are very quick, Ali is just quicker.
     
  11. KnightAndDay

    KnightAndDay Active Member Full Member

    616
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    Mar 5, 2016
    Garcia-Herrera

    Rd 1 - 10-9, Garcia
    Rd 2 - 10-9, Garcia
    Rd 3 - 10-9, Herrera
    Rd 4 - 10-9, Herrera
    Rd 5 - 10-9, Herrera
    Rd 6 - 10-9, Garcia
    Rd 7 - 10-9, Herrera
    Rd 8 - 10-9, Herrera
    Rd 9 - 10-9, Herrera
    Rd 10 - 10-9, Herrera
    Rd 11 - 10-9, Herrera
    Rd 12 - 10-9, Herrera

    117-111, Herrera
     
  12. KnightAndDay

    KnightAndDay Active Member Full Member

    616
    49
    Mar 5, 2016
    Quigg-Frampton

    Rd 1 - 10-9, Frampton
    Rd 2 - 10-9, Frampton
    Rd 3 - 10-9, Quigg
    Rd 4 - 10-9, Quigg
    Rd 5 - 10-9, Frampton
    Rd 6 - 10-9, Frampton
    Rd 7 - 10-9, Frampton
    Rd 8 - 10-9, Quigg
    Rd 9 - 10-9, Quigg
    Rd 10 - 10-9, Quigg
    Rd 11 - 10-9, Quigg
    Rd 12 - 10-9, Frampton

    114-114, Draw
     
  13. KnightAndDay

    KnightAndDay Active Member Full Member

    616
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    Mar 5, 2016
    Geale-Barker

    Rd 1 - 10-9, Geale
    Rd 2 - 10-9, Barker
    Rd 3 - 10-9, Barker
    Rd 4 - 10-9, Geale
    Rd 5 - 10-9, Geale
    Rd 6 - 10-8, Geale
    Rd 7 - 10-9, Barker
    Rd 8 - 10-9, Barker
    Rd 9 - 10-9, Geale
    Rd 10 - 10-9, Geale
    Rd 11 - 10-9, Barker
    Rd 12 - 10-9, Geale

    115-112, Geale
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mar 21, 2007
    Ray Leonard TKO10 Floyd Mayweather

    Mayweather's funny looking. he looks like a cat man. Aggressive though and busy left hand from the off. Quick head movement too and he's ready to run from Mayweather's left handed jab. More than a million people have watched this fight on YoutTube. Must be loonies thinking it's Leonard and the Mayweather. I don't think there's much difference in speed here.

    Leonard drops the first round but his maturity really is dazzling. Moves well, not over-eager but nor is he overcomplicating things. He's prodding a bit with his jab maybe, but he's really interesting for this stage in his career. But Mayweather is unintimidated. Impressive from both prospects I think. Mayweather is making Leonard miss a fair bit, but he throws and lands enough to take teh second, possibly even hurting Mayweather in the last 15 seconds of the round.

    Third round is all Leonard. He just beats the **** ou t of Mayweather, realising Mayweather doesn't feel that great and so he just sits down on his punches, Cossell keeps calling his attacks "flurries", maybe that word had a different meaning in the seventies, haha, because these are really hard punches to the body and some sore hits to the head too. He is literally teeing off against a winging, slugging Leonard.

    Mayweather loves the ropes. It's a shame because i think he would have won the sixth, but retreating there and getting walloped looks bad even if you are catching 60% of what's coming your glvoes or elbows. Still, I think I'll call this one a draw.

    This is a hard fight for Leonard because he's throwing so much. He looks a bit sluggish in the seventh, but lands two beautiful left hooks in the final 30 seconds to put Mayweather in trouble again. There's a bit of holding creeping in now. Mayweather lands a very decent flurry in the last minute, but Leonard hits him and hurts him and drives a tired Myaweather to the ropes. A screaming left-hook-cum/uppercut sees Myaweather's legs go and Leonard drives him back and ropes and drops him with rights. Mayweather's up and he looks gathered at the beginning of the ninth. Leonard looks a little tired. Still the boss though.

    Leonard didn't jab much. I think he was worried by Mayweather's speed. He made a fight out of it with a non-punching opponent. Very good generalship. The pressure he puts on him for the stoppage is lovely. Very aggressive. Gets the stoppage; probably a decent stoppage. Arguable though.

    Leonard:2,3*,4,5,6,7,8**,9,
    Mayweather:1,

    *10-8 round, crazy one-sided round.
    **Mayweather down

    Pretty on-sided really, given that Mayweather was ranked at either #5 or #6 at the time.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ray Leonard TKO15 Wilfred Benitez

    Cagey. Bit boring even? Benitez wants to wait, Leonard is aware of the severe danger in countering. Probably Mayweather is the key learning fight for this contest...Loenard scores with a peach of a right hand just 90 seconds into the first but he seems, even then, just a little wary of overstepping. Based upon the first round, Leonard wants to very cautiously try to out-box Benitez. At mid-range, which is where he wants to do his damage, he fights more aggressively. He probably just about outjabs Benitez to edge a close second. A lightning quick left drops Benitez in the third, a round Benitez may have been winning. Leonard has a very serious lead after four.

    Benitez has a better fifth...then gets a nasty cut in a head clash in the sixth which kind of spurs him on. He looks ready to be more aggressive. Seventh and eighth, pretty boring with Leonard happy for Benitez to wait, but they swap good punches in the ninth.

    Benitez takes some heavy shots n the eleventh - he's pretty close to going I think once Leonard pins him on the ropes he's fighting for his life. He gets out with his life, but a win for him on my card is impossible now.

    Overall, kind of dull. They didn't really show that much skill, these two. They slipped well, both of them, they both jabbed well without being amazing, not a lot of combination punching, some really nice footwork. Not a great fight.

    The stoppage in the fifteenth had been heralded throughout the fight but really, it only came about because Benitez decided to go for it. Great test for Leonard's engine this; he passed it. Throwing a LOT of punches in the final round and finally catching him clean.

    Leonard:1,2,3*,4,6,8,9,11,13,14.
    Benitez:5,7,10,12.

    *Benitez down.