the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    HENRY COOPER 144 | 141 JOE BUGNER
     
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  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Freddie Norwood UD12 Juan Manuel Marquez

    Marquez is trying to buy that lead early, Norwood looks like he might entertain him - but in his own time. It makes for a lot of feinting and missing. They trade body punches, Norwood gets the better of it; Norwood is trying to wield his left hand across himself after stepping inside. Marquez has no problem dropping his way out of these. He's also framing himself for an uppercut in response to this move. Plenty going on here, but no fireworks yet.

    Marquez lands two good body shots to open the second but a great cute counter inside drops Marquez to his butt. He looks ok, but it's a 10-8 round and Norwood gets that left hand across several times in the round. Marquez wants to keep coming forwards in the third but he's a little shy of that left. He's reaching. But when he gets Norwood to come on, he does well with a sneaky counter right - and another with Norwood going away. This is going to be a squabble with occasional forays from each man and a lot of duking for position. Marquez could win that game, he has a good third landing several rights.

    It's a big fourth round on my card. A clash of heads causes a cut for Norwood above the left eye and he looks unhappy. Marquez counters well but lands a great left-right combo along the ropes. Very, very tight round. I think Marquez just takes it with a cuffing left in the penultimate exchange of the round.

    These guys are having zero luck with their jabs...funny to see two such excellent technicians relying upon power-punches for their scoring blows. Marquez is just a little further back than he ought to be with his straight right. But it's still landing occasionally and for me that's just keeping him barely ahead. Norwood lands a good straight left to the body though to make it all square in the fifth with a minute remaining. Marquez barely out-squabbles him to even things up in five.

    Ugh, these rounds are difficult to score. Marquez lands a good body punch in the first minute, Norwood a pushing right. Norwood just good with the range, keeping his distance well but he's not getting his offence across because of this. He's making himself hard to hit, but the cost is his own offence. Even when he comes in, he's leaning away a bit. Norwood does win the seventh though, he first since the second, just by outlanding Marquez with clean punches something like 4-3.

    "I do not envy the judges in this one" says Larry Merchant. No ****. A hard left-hand counter, followed by another, wins Norwood the first half of the eighth. His out-waiting strategy is paying off in this round, but it's a little hard on the eye. Still, the fight is absorbing. And he now has Marquez skipping back a bit when he feints. This helps him to control the range. This is Norwood's best round since the second. Marquez counters with a short punch to score a KD though - and the referee doesn't see it! Man, Marquez is not a lucky fighter. Replays make it a little more ambiguous but he could have got the KD there. He makes up for it in the 9th by scoring a KD, l lashing left hand in the final seconds momentarily dropping Norwood. This puts Marquez ahead on my card with three remaining.

    I gave Marquez an untidy 10th, too, but really you're just throwing a dart when you score these difficult rounds. Norwood lands a couple of left hands in the eleventh. Both throw jabs without any real sense that they will land. If Norwood can win the twelfth he'd get a draw for me. The twelfth is interesting. Norwood drops real low. I think from this position he takes a small lead out of the first minute. He probably nurses it to bell. So happily, I have this drawish bout a draw. Loads of missing, loads of slipping to the canvas, some wrestling...this is a bit of a nah.

    Marquez:3,4,5,6,9**,10,
    Norwood:1,2*,7,8,11,12

    * Marquez down.
    ** Norwood down.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Christ John UD12 Juan Manuel Marquez

    This fight is fascinating in that the way it has been interpreted on the forums has waxed and waned with the Marquez star. As he emerged into a pound-for-pound star, it was a robbery. Then, when the inevitable backlash kicked in, it was a clear victory for John. In fact, the fight was just very close.

    John is very lively on his feet. We'll surely see more jabs landed here though than in the Norwood fight. They literally swap punches in the first, very even round. Absurdly close. The second is a little clearer, for Marquez, who even appears to wobble his man momentarily with a swinging left hand. John lands a booming right hand round the corner to take the third, bit cuffy, but certainly a scoring punch, and a counter right hand down the pipe in the final seconds. Marquez has success too, these are close rounds.

    Marquez is putting them together a little better in the fourth, but his opponent is a ghost so he's not landing htem clean. Meanwhile, John, too, seems to be linking his punches a little better as the round runs on. He finishes one nice combo with a left to the body. Marquez lands a great uppercut to maybe sneak his one though. Another nightmarish fight to score; i don't really remember it that way. But 2-2 after four seems right. Daylight between them after six with Marquez ahead. He's got the range here and he's having success moving into John with the right hand. John apparently doesn't have the ability to slip or counter this punch regularly enough to discourage/punish Marquez who also does well at the mid-range with a variety of punches. It is in this round that Marquez is first warned for a low-blow which was borderline.

    John looks nervous of that right hand by the start of the seventh; he should be, Marquez is building from it. John also might find a way to make Marquez pay with these scrabling nerves. He lands a very good right hand of hs own in this round and possibly just edged it. Marquez closes strong though, hurting my head.

    Marquez is warned again in the eighth for low blows. He's all-action though, piling on the pressure when the chance presents itself. He's throwing very hard punches and some of them are landing. The ninth is a big round. Marquez wins it to give him the "golden" six on my card. This should be enough to see the job out, however...

    ...in the tenth, Marquez has a point deducted for a low blow. It was definitely low. However, i thought the referee was a little hard in his earlier warnings. He does land another low one moments later though; the point deduction is probably ok for this reason. Justice was served. John won the eleventh, and again, Marquez had a point deducted for a low blow, again, justifiably. When John wins the twelfth it goes 113-113 on my card and another draw.

    John:1,3,7,11*,12
    Marquez:2,4,5,6,8,9,10*

    * Marquez has a point deducted for low blows.
     
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    McG playing it safe and scoring every controversial fight in history a draw :lol:
     
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  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Fight 78: Benvenuti vs Monzon

    1:9-10
    2:9-10
    3:9-10
    4:9-10
    5:9-10
    6:9-10
    7:9-10
    8:9-10
    9:9-10
    10:9-10
    11:9-10
    12:tko

    Few things about this one. First off Benevuti is a quality operator and a very fine fighter, he was just up against one of the greatest fighters ever.

    Secondly Monzon is often described as awkward and unsightly, I don't see it. To me he's not that far removed from Golovkin. He isn't at all slick and he's got maybe a bit too much patience when he's ahead on points, but the way he drives behind that jab and throws fight ending hooks, the way he cuts the ring off and softens men up to the body, him and Golovkin are reasonably similar imo.

    Also this was a fight of the year, not sure why as it was a domination. Some rounds Monzon edged and some he battered but I don't think there's a single round you should give to Nino.

    I always give the edge to Hagler out of these two because he had more dimensions to his game, but Monzon is one of the best one dimensional fighters in history.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Antonio Esparragoza TKO12 Steve Cruz

    Very impressive of Esparragoza taking the title from Cruz on enemy territory.

    Cruz is buzzing off the crowd, high energy, quick shifts, looking for the right hand behind the jab. Esparragoza trying to establish his own jab. They trade rights in a good opening round. Cruz looked strong early, but I think Esparragoza got him under control with the jab as the round wound down. In the second, Cruz just seemed to outspeed the taller man in the pocket to nick the round. These boys are here to fight though.

    Activity puts Esparragoza in the box seat in the third; he doesn't miss an opportunity to punch, goes to the body well, jabs often without becoming too predictable and is alive to opportunities for the right hand. Scintillating left hook to the body and a lovely one-two.

    That's a sinister twitch Esparragoza has in his right hand, cradling, cocking it. Warned a couple of times for rough stuff but winning out of sight. Vast,volume attack. :lol: Esparaggoza lands a horrible little late jab, crowd goes nuts. The Venezuelan tries to take the sixth off but Cruz comes barrelling right at him, hurting him with a surging attack and having success with his jab. Esparaggoza has to step up to get his man back under control. Cruz has a good seventh, too, but I think he lost it to a couple of booming one-twos. He comes on like a tonne in the eight though, pinning Esparragoza to the ropes and hitting him to the body. Esparragoza breaks out and takes his own turn at hurling abuse. Cruz's chin is something.

    Cruz just giving ground as before something elemental but he's fighting all the way. Up, down, all around. When Cruz drops his head, it's uppercuts, when he drops his hands, it's head shots, when he raises them, body...Esparragoza has a point taken off i think for rough housing, grappling, but he has strayed south a bit with some shots.

    The doctor has a look at Cruz in the twelfth for swelling on the eyes and just generally being banged up by a tidal wave of punches and within seconds Cruz has him down amidst a fuselage of punches. Cruz makes it up, and wishes he hadn't. Referee steps in as Cruz goes down for a second time.

    Esparragoza:1,3,4,5,7,8,9*,10,11,
    Cruz:2,6,

    *Esparragoza has a point taken off.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Young Kyun Park UD12 Eloy Rojas

    Park is busy, kinda feinting, lots of upper body movement, high energy style. Rojas is just kind of looking at him like "wtf?" Finds himself on the ropes a lot in the first round. Lands three meaty blows though, only to be charged to the ropes and barreled down, ruled a knockdown. Probably was a knockdown. Park comes back like crazy but Rojas is punching with him, letting him know it was just a flash. Kid is crazy.

    Rojas slips in the corner in the second round and Park happily blazes at him while he's down; should have had a point taken off. Rojas is finding him with a half--hook as he comes in, body and head, but Park does get him to the ropes again and lands. He probably gets enough good work done on those ropes to negate the toll on the way in, and then they go back to Rojas hitting Park as Park tries to pin him. And that's going to be the pattern of the fight.

    I thought Rojas nicked the third (his first) by taxing him with right hands on the way in. He also did a little holding and spinning on the ropes when Park trapped him. It's good work. Because Park is so mad, Rojas is able to load up a bit and these punches are serious. Lots of mauling and holding in the fourth. You can't help but think that favours Park. He's also so much busier that he's going to win any rounds that are very close. After four he has a handy little lead on my card.

    Korean adverts aren't as weird as the Japanese ones but they're still quite surreal.

    The fifth feels big and Park wins it with his weird display of threshing and tossing in the head. You'd have to imagine him coasting him pretty clearly from here, if working like an absolute slave for 2 of every three minutes can ever count as coasting...kind of weird to watch the stick-thin victimised Rojas stand up under this abuse, hard guy.

    Rojas looks like he'd like to be somewhere else after six. Can't say I blame him He's had the head, the shoulder, rabbit punches, been hit while he was down and hit after the bell. I'm not sure the referee has even admonished Park. On the other hand, Park is begging to be hit with uppercuts and Rojas isn't willing or able to chance it anything like often enough. Gets his jab working a bit in the eight though. He's also started his own rulebreaking, holding and pushing down with both arms on the Korean's head. Referee, non-plussed.

    Park is punching way less now and it's giving Rojas some room. He doesn't have a lot to box to though, having been down and lost so many early rounds. He probably loses a close tenth, anyway, and any hope he had with it. Eleventh was a hugfest. Rojas's glove tape on his right hand comes lose half way through this round, referee ignores that too.

    Just a mad fight that defies description really.

    PARK:1*,2,4,5,6,7,10,
    ROJAS:3,8,9,11,

    *Rojas down.
     
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Fight 79: Wilde vs Symonds

    When watching Jimmy Wilde footage I was always left with a dual impression.I could never decide whether he defended with his chin like Ketchel or whether he was an athletic marvel with better defensive skills than I've seen him given credit for.

    The reason behind this is purely due to quality of footage, it's hard to spot the head movement with a jerky lenses (I still pray clear footage of ruby will emerge one day).

    I had to take a logical approach and conclude there's no way a man of his stature could exchange on the strength of his chin and with the fighting style he employed it was much more likely he was an athletic sharp shooter than a brawler.


    I've not really changed that narrative for the last couple of year and with that leap of faith intact, watching Wilde is watching a thing of beauty. He could be Roy Jones in there the way he uses a combination of athleticism and bone crushing power. The more I see the more I'm convinced I'm right about the speed of his reflexes and the brilliant defence he has.

    This man is still the best flyweight I've ever seen. I think the only two I can give a realistic chance to defeat him are Perez and Gonzalez with their methodical pressure. That seems the best way to beat a man like this.

    The stoppage btw is a lot more brutal than I remember, I'm not sure if this footage is clearer than previous versions but Symonds hands are trapped by his side and he takes a hellacious combo, falls to the floor and refuses to try and beat the count.

    The people with a blanket argument about modern fighters are always better need to watch this man fight.

    Ironically I was posting in the general forum earlier (I know it's my own fault) and the thread was matching Ali vs Jennings, 40% voted for Jennings. I left the convo and returned to my safe haven in this thread where at least the people I talk to have definitely watched fights about those they are talking about.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  9. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    ROBERTO DURAN 125 | 121 KEN BUCHANAN (at the time of stoppage)

    I cannot believe the ref awarded the championship of the world to Duran for not only a low blow, but a low blow after the bell. That's like a super-duper DQ, but apparently that kinda nonsense wins you the Lightweight Championship of the World back in 1972. Granted Duran was gonna win a decision anyway, but still that's a pretty shitty way to lose the crown.
     
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  10. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    MUHAMMAD ALI VS JOE BUGNER I: 118-110 ALI
     
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Fight 80: Marquez v Pacquaio

    1: 10-9
    2: 10-9
    3: 8-10
    4: 9-10
    5: 10-9
    6: 10-9
    7: 9-10
    8: 10-9
    9: 9-10
    10: 9-10
    11: 9-10
    12: 10-9

    113-114

    This is the rematch at SFW. Lost count of how many times I've watched and scored this fight. This is one of my favourite fights ever because it's two legitimate legends in their prime.

    This was a good as Pac ever got for me, I believe he was a WW in the ring as he'd reached maturity, he just stopped cutting as he moved up.

    I remember once scoring this to JMM but mostly I see it as I did here, 6-6 With the kd making the difference.

    Rounds 9, 10 and 11 won it for Pac, he really made JMM uncomfortable with his aggression and where as Marquez had slowed down Pac was still full throttle.

    No idea how Lederman gave the 12th to Pacquiao as Marquez dominated that round as he sought the big finish.

    SuchI great fight this one fought at an extremely high level.

    That left hand of Pac man is one of the best weapons on history and those combos from Marquez are beautiful.

    Great victory this one and a great fight by both men
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Fight 81: Mayweather vs Pacquiao

    1: 10-9
    2: 9-10
    3: 10-9
    4: 9-10
    5: 10-9
    6: 9-10
    7: 10-9
    8: 10-9
    9: 10-9
    10: 10-9
    11: 10-9
    12: 10-9

    117-111

    Half way through I had this fight level. It was tit for tat with Mayweather winning rounds on the outside and Pacquiao winning rounds after driving him to the ropes.

    The second half of the fight saw them trying to match punch for punch but obviously that suits Floyd to a tee.

    Listening to the interview after the fight, Pacquiao said he never stepped it up because he thought he was winning. I mean yeah he was the one moving forward but he was being out landed every round in that second half. I can't believe there was no sense of urgency with him.

    Floyd, on this night, is better than he ever was as a SFW. I think for years the myth was perpetuated that Floyd was worse higher up the weight classes and it just isn't something that is backed up on film.

    He looked more dominant in some performances against lesser opposition, granted, but the men he beat at WW were far better than those he fought at lower classes.

    I know a lot don't consider Floyd a great welter but I do. He would outbox an awful lot of former champs from 147 and below.

    He adjusted and schooled a fellow p4p superstar. One who was on the decline but one who was good enough to beat just about anyone else out there.
     
  13. KnightAndDay

    KnightAndDay Active Member Full Member

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    Emanuel Augustus - Courtney Burton


    Rd 1 - 10-9, Augustus
    Rd 2 - 10-9, Augustus
    Rd 3 - 10-9, Augustus
    Rd 4 - 10-9, Augustus
    Rd 5 - 10-9, Burton
    Rd 6 - 10-9, Augustus
    Rd 7 - 10-9, Burton
    Rd 8 - 10-9, Augustus
    Rd 9 - 9-9, Even
    Rd 10 - 10-9, Augustus


    97-92, Augustus
     
  14. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    MUHAMMAD ALI 144 | 140 JIMMY YOUNG
    MUHAMMAD ALI VS JOE FRAZIER III: 137-129 ALI (at time of stoppage)
    MUHAMMAD ALI 95 | 95 RON LYLE (at time of stoppage)
    MUHAMMAD ALI VS KEN NORTON I: 115-114 ALI
    MUHAMMAD ALI VS KEN NORTON II: 116-112 ALI
     
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Fight 82: Gomez vs Zarate

    1: 10-9
    2: 10-9
    3: 10-9
    4: 10-7
    5: TKO

    What a great performance this is, picking off the shots from the outside and moving in for the kill against a prime ATG. Incredible fight by Gomez here and one of the best performances in history.

    You know what, as I began looking into boxing history it was all because I didn't understand why Mayweather wasn't considered the best of all time when he retired. Then other questions popped up, like why Dempsey was such a polarising figure and who the hell was Sam Langford. Despite finding the answers to all these I was always conflicted in how I should be considering who the greats were. A lot of people say resume and I used to say the same but I could never quite shake the feeling of "yeah but he'd never beat fight x" that's when I began looking more and skill set.

    Here's where I've changed the most though, I was always bothered about slickness and criticised fighters for taking shots. But the reality is that a fighter only needs do 1 thing and that is to win. Whether that is to convince the judges he did enough or to knock a man out all he has to do is win.

    Since this fight list started I've began appreciating that slick defence isn't the only form of pugilistic brilliance, it can be rolling with a shot, blocking a shot or even exchanging a shot if you are confident enough.

    I mean sure, Gomez wasn't the slickest out there but you make a man weigh 122 and how many of those men would you actually favour over him? He's one of the best fighting machines ever produced.

    I often read my old posts on here and shake my head at some of the things I once said.

    I have to remember though, I only got into boxing history in 2009 and if it's taken me 7 years to settle upon the way I'm happy I see the sport, it isn't wasted time it's more of a journey. A journey I'm able to enjoy through footage of great great fighters.