the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Continuing my curent fixation on John Conteh fights, I sat down to score the John Conteh-Mate Parlov fight only to find the 14th round missing. Saw it when it happened - didn't score it then but thought it could go either way. Now I score it and its missing one round. Regardless, here we go.

Round 1: 10-9 Conteh
Round 2: 10-9 Parlov
Round 3: 10-9 Conteh
Round 4: 10-9 Parlov
Round 5: 10-9 Parlov
Round 6: 10-9 Conteh
Round 7: 10-10 Even
Round 8: 9-9 Even (I felt Conteh's round but he lost a point for use of the head)
Round 9: 10-9 Parlov
Round 10:10-9 Conteh
Round 11:10-9 Conteh
Round 12:10-9 Conteh
Round 13:10-9 Conteh
Round 14: ?? Round missing
Round 15: 9-9 Even (Conteh's round but lost a point for use of the elbow)

With the missing round my tally was 134-131 for Conteh. Even if I gave the 14th to Parlov we would be looking at 143-141 for Conteh. Parlov's style is a slapping open-handed right jab but he used it liberally, so you have to separate those point-getters from the power shots of Conteh. Tough loss for Conteh.

 

Kovalev Vs Ward

Rewatched this today. I think I've been under appreciating Kovalev in terms of his historical standing.

I kinda figured Ward beat him so a lot of boxers through history would. I mean don't get me wrong, I think Ward is an ATG but I thought stylistically this hints at weaknesses in his arsenal. I remember the fight being close but never thinking Sergey won it before.

Anyways I watched it again because of all the talk I'd heard about this being a bad decision, the version I watched was on YouTube filmed in the arena, it had no commentary, just the fight itself.

I was surprised watching it again, Ward was very ineffective during the first half of the fight, I mean he basically hugged and got beat to the punch, round after round. I gave the first 6 to Sergey. And the 8th.

From round 9 onwards Ward was getting off first and his straight shots were getting there ahead of Kovalevs hooks.

But still I scored it 7-5 or 115-112.

Circular reasonings play a lot in boxing and if I'm convinced Ward is an ATG, which I am, this shows Kovalev was on his level which means he's an ATG as well right?

Or at least one of the best fighters in LHW history.

I favour him over Tunney and Spinks anyways, for whatever that's worth.

Rather than see Kovalev as someone who failed at the highest level, I now see him as someone who proved himself. I mean yeah Ward got the decision here but it's hard watching this and not admitting that Kovalev was at worst on his level.

I think the excuses for the rematch are bs, even if he didn't train so what that's his fault. But he looks like he's back to his best now and if he got a fight with Stevenson I think he'd prove that.

 

Hagler v Leonard

R1: Leonard
R2: Leonard
R3: Leonard
R4: Leonard
R5: Hagler
R6: Leonard
R7: Hagler
R8: Hagler
R9: Leonard
R10: Hagler
R11: Hagler
R12: Leonard

Leonard 115 - 113 Hagler

A fight of two halves. I had Leonard 5-1 up after 6 rounds, Hagler then won 4 of the next 5 to bring it within a point and then Leonard took the final round in my view.

I'm not going to argue my score strongly as there were many rounds open to interpretation but I'm happy with the tally as it matched my overall impression of the fight, which was that Leonard won.

The only thing I'll say definitively is that Hagler gave away the opening rounds and the initiative to Leonard. In a close fight, that was a crucial difference and many of the closer rounds I scored for Hagler whereas I found it impossible to give him any of the opening four rounds as he simply wasn't busy or effective enough.

Made a note after first six rounds: 'Hagler fought an awful fight so far.' I think Hagler got it wrong tactically and only started being effective when Leonard started to tire and he could close the gap a bit more but if you're 5-1 down after 6 rounds, then you're giving yourself a mountain to climb.

 

For some reason I have been in a fringe but entertaining heavyweight watch kick

I spent yesterday watching a bunch of Derrick Jefferson fights and was pretty impressed with some of his skills. He seemed to get undone by the ankle injury from the gunshot that ruined his basketball career. His stance and the way he moved his back leg seemed to think he adjusted his movement to that injury

Jefferson vs Cooper

Round 1: Cooper went right after Jefferson bobbing and weaving and landing on him. Jefferson tried to jab and body punch but wasnt sitting much on his shots

Round 2: They both come out to the middle and ref holds them off to wait and Jefferson lands a bomb and down goes Cooper. He never seems to recover and the ref jumps in...found it to be an odd end but Jefferson seized a moment

Jefferson vs Harris


Odd scoring used in this fight majority scoring where the 3 judges scores are combined for a majority 1 score. I wonder why this never grew to being used more.


Round 2 was a great round with Jefferson starting with a good inside left hook and dropped Harris and then followed up and dropped him again. He looked done and the HBO crew was calling for the ref to intervene when Harris nailed him and sent him down.


Round 3: Another entertaining round where near the end Jefferson fired a hard uppercut and sent Harris’s mouth piece flying. It was odd, Harris just seemed to freeze in time and Jefferson just kind of stood there maybe shocked by his own power but certainly didn’t shoot any punches as Harris fell back to his corner.

Jefferson vs Izon


This was a hell of an opportunity for Jefferson as he was in NYC at Radio City Music Hall on the undercard of Jones vs Telesco. He controlled the fight pretty easily I think I scored him every round when suddenly he was hobbling back to his corner after the 6th. Izon saw this and jumped on him. I don’t think Jefferson was actually hurt but he certainly could not defend himself the fight got waved

Jefferson vs Maskaev



I didn’t take notes from this fight after watching it like 3-4 days ago so my recollection isn’t as clear but either way Maskaev nailed Jefferson with a right in round 1 or 2 and he fell over his ankle weird and clearly hurt it. Maskaev patiently bided his time and took a safe approach to the still pretty dangerous seeming Jefferson. Jefferson wouldn’t tell the doctor between rounds if it was his knee or ankle or really let him look at it. He hit Maskaev with a few left hooks but it was clear he wasn’t going to be able to properly defend himself. He took a stand but went down again and the ref saw enough. Heart filled performance from Jefferson, I wonder if a rematch was ever considered?

Jefferson vs Klitschko



Incidentally this is the first Klitschko fight I ever witnessed and became a career long fan and it makes me laugh when people say Klitschko couldn’t beat big fighters.


I was impressed massively with Klitschko who bombed Jefferson early with a right hand and roughed him up inside with left hooks. Jefferson was just no match


Overall take away from Derrick Jefferson is mostly positive I mean he started boxing at 23 or 24 and turned pro at 27. He was the only person to beat Grant in the ams and until Lennox did it later on. Like Grant he seemed to get plagued by Ankle injuries….(this isn’t to say he isn’t flawed or shows deficiencies but seemed like he could have been slightly more)…Im really wondering what you guys think he would look like vs Wilder who is tall athletic and can bang much like Jefferson.

Jefferson’s double left hook and his use of that punch inside really impressed me.


Can anyone tell me the significance of the 72 ML King football jersey he wore?


Next up Jameel McCline and then probably early Rahman

 

I'm on a Kid Gavilan kick today it seems.

Kid Gavilan - Billy Graham III (NY scoring which was the rounds basis)

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Gavilan
Round 3: Graham
Round 4: Gavilan
Round 5: Gavilan
Round 6: Graham
Round 7: Gavilan
Round 8: Even
Round 9: Graham
Round 10: Graham
Round 11: Graham
Round 12: Graham
Round 13: Even
Round 14: Graham
Round 15: Graham

8-4-3 Graham

and

Kid Gavilan - Carmen Basilio

Again, I'm scoring it on NY rules at the time which was a rounds basis and no extra point for the knockdown in the 2nd round.

Round 1: Gavilan
Round 2: Basilio (Basilio scores a knockdown)
Round 3: Even
Round 4: Basilio
Round 5: Even
Round 6: Basilio
Round 7: Basilio
Round 8: Gavilan
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Gavilan
Round 11: Gavilan
Round 12: Basilio
Round 13: Even
Round 14: Gavilan
Round 15: Gavilan

Total: 6-5-4 Gavilan

This was a decent fight but nothing scintillating about it. Very, very close. Man, 4 even rounds was a lot but I don't like that flip of a coin style of judging. That penalizes the one fighter.

 

Here is the Barry McGuigan-Stevie Cruz featherweight title fight. Man, what a pace for 15 rounds and in the Las Vegas desert to boot. Loved the fight, hated the result.

Round 1: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 2: 10-9 Cruz
Round 3: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 4: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 5: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 6: 10-9 Cruz
Round 7: 10-9 Cruz
Round 8: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 9: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 10: 10-8 Cruz (scores a knockdown)
Round 11: 10-9 Cruz
Round 12: 10-9 Cruz (scored it even but 1 point deducted from McGuigan for low blow)
Round 13: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 14: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 15: 10-7 Cruz (scores 2 knockdowns)

Total: 142-140 Cruz

Official scores unanimously for Cruz 143-142, 142-141 and 143-139. A few of the UK analysts had McGuigan just retaining his title, but although I was a big McGuigan supporter, I gotta call them the way I see them. Cruz must have really infuriated his corner when he would hold back after hurting a fighter. I saw him do the same thing when he fought Jorge Paez. He decked him, had him out on his feet, but just wouldn't throw another punch let alone a finisher. I should also add that that was one Herculean effort by McGuigan to take the 13th and 14th on my card when there couldn't be much in the tank. Excellent fight.

 

Here is a real crazy fight for those scoring. George Chuvalo and Mike DeJohn. I think we all know the story on this fight, but I thought I would give it a look-see. Here we go, 5 point must system in effect. Chuvalo and DeJohn.

Round 1: 5-4 DeJohn
Round 2: 5-3 DeJohn (this was the round where DeJohn gets hung up in the ropes and Chuvalo flails away like the washerwoman. The ref gives DeJohn plenty of time to recover and Chuvalo makes it worse by cutting off his gloves thinking the fight is over. There is all kinds of time here before they finish out the last 47 seconds of the round. Don Dunphy states they are giving the round to DeJohn by a score of 5-3 - awarding him the round and an extra point for what they said was a foul.)
Round 3: 5-4 Chuvalo
Round 4: 5-4 Chuvalo
Round 5: 5-5 Even
Round 6: 5-2 Chuvalo (Chuvalo scores a clean knockdown, but after the eight count he runs at DeJohn and bundles him through the ropes and the ref helps him up. I thought it was no knockdown if he helps him up but the ref gives DeJohn an 8 count. So for 2 knockdowns I gave Chuvalo a 5-2 score.)
Round 7: 5-4 DeJohn
Round 8: 5-5 Even (I noted on my card 'clinchfest' this round - no one deserved it.)
Round 9: 5-4 Chuvalo
Round 10: 5-4 Chuvalo

Total: 46-43 Chuvalo

A truly odd fight.

 

i remember that moment in time when analysts were calling rafael the better brother especially after he beat vaquez the first time. rafael seems to be a fighter that the discussions have seemed to pass by. what do you think of his overall legacy and legacy in relation to his brother

 

Eddie Machen vs Billy Hunter

ROUND 1 MACHEN 10-9 HUNTER. Thought Hunter done an okay job establishing his jab and landing it with minimal success. Machen won the round for his swarming on doing the more damage during his bursts of activity.

ROUND 2 MACHEN 10-9 HUNTER. Machen had a lot of success with the left hook this round with Hunter having not much of an answer except for a pawing jab which was being usually deflected by Machens nice looking parrys. I will say though he had some minimal success with a nice looking jab to the body really crisp and sharp looking. Machen though came on real strong just at the end and was having his way with Hunter on the ropes.

ROUND 3 MACHEN 9-10 HUNTER. Thought Hunter started doing what he shouldve been doing in this round,hes got big long arms and about 5/6 inches on him heightwise youve got to be popping the jab often and fast when youve got that kind of an advantage.He has a nice jab too very crisp and is actually a pretty good mover of his head,although not a great positioner of his head as hes often finding himself lowering his head down and trying to test Eddie on the inside. Eddie not doing much of anything in this round until the last 30 seconds where gets off a decent flurry.

ROUND 4 MACHEN 10-8 HUNTER. Barnstormer of a round,both men come out swinging and looking for blood. For Eddie i can see this as a good thing but its Hunter who is instigating this infighting and im not sure why,Eddie is far too strong on the inside and that check hook is no joke. Halfway through the round Hunter starts getting the message and backing off,straightening up and going back to keeping it at distance with the jab. Near the end off the round Machen catches Hunter coming out of the inside with a beautiful right cross which stuns him, he then pivots outside and hits him with a great left hook which floors Hunter who takes the 8 count. Eddie is strong.

ROUND 5 MACHEN 10-10 HUNTER. Hunter done well to comeback this round and was very active up close and to his credit was actually doing some good work on the inside and doing a good job of rushing Machen. Hunter never landed anything meaningful but his activity was enough to ward Machen off for large stretches but Machen was doing a great job of making his chances to get in count. Great use of the uppercut and left hook-left uppercut combo from Eddie, nearly everytime he'd throw a power punch it was finding a home.

ROUND 6 MACHEN 10-9 HUNTER. Machen just about. Not too much going on in this round, Machen i think taking a bit of a breather as he seemed happy enough just to work off the jab and follow Hunter around. Hunter looked somewhat out of ideas here,had a decent start to the round but for the most part was just moving in and out not doing much of anything. Machen is utilising an almost defensive swinging left hook like a man trying to shoo away a fly and it does an okay job of making Hunter hesitate as he moves in.

ROUND 7 MACHEN 10-9 HUNTER. Machen lands some bombs this round. Arguably a better perfromance from him than the 4th round, he was doing some great stuff with that swinging left again to set things up.Machen's hip torque is amazing and is putting huge power behind his right hands helps that hes also got a back like a bulls ass. Credit to Hunter for not really taking a backstep and plowing forward but Machen is really starting to grab this fight by the horns.

ROUND 8 MACHEN 9-10 HUNTER. Hunters got a hell of a ticker on him,its definitely not his brain getting him through this one as he insists on fighting inside with a man he towers over. Machen occasionally gets something off through waves of inactivity but its Hunters constant pressure that gets him this round.

ROUND 9. Round starts with Machen countering Hunters shots well and with solid punches,its very hard for Billy to get anything off as Eddie is doing a real good job of it. Machen hits Hunter with a great left hook with lots of leg behind it and sends Hunter on ***** street.Hunter goes stumbling into one of the corners with Machen not far behind chasing him down. Machen starts laying the pummel down,trying to end it.The scrap descends to the other side of the ring where Eddie hits him a beauty of a left and sends him flying into the ropes where the ref steps in and puts a tough Billy Hunter out of his misery.

WINNER: EDDIE MACHEN TKO9

This was a really interesting fight with very little clinching or long periods of rest, a very quick pace for a heavyweight fight. Billy Hunter would only fight four more times after this with two of those being against Mike DeJohn and Brian London both of which ended in KO losses to Hunter, he hung up the gloves at the young age of 27 and with a record of 19-10-3 two of his wins i was interested in finding going through his record were Tony Anthony who held a draw and a win over Yvon Durelle, and Bob Baker who held a UD over George Chuvalo. Billy Hunter also had the pleasure of having to face an up and coming Charles "Sonny" Liston.
Eddie Machen had a successful career as a B/B+ fighter,sharing the ring with some of the greats of his day Joe Fraizer,Floyd Patterson,Sonny etc. And even getting some very respectable making the grandkids proud wins like Joey Maxim x2,Jerry Quarry and Doug Jones.